4 ms·

There's a decent hypothesis about the reason for dreaming, but it's a bit absurd to call it the whole point of sleep. As a person with severe insomnia, often g

There's a decent hypothesis about the reason for dreaming, but it's a bit absurd to call it the whole point of sleep. As a person with severe insomnia, often going several days without sleep, you absolutely start breaking down without sleep. Brain zaps, hearing things, seeing things, etc. I've read people have even died in severe cases. So it feels like there's a medical necessity that's the whole point. Whether dreams are a neat side effect of said process or a purposeful side project of sorts is worthy of debate, however.

pjerem 3y ago
Are you sure about people dying from lack of sleep ? I read the opposite but I lack proof. To me sleeping is an essential "maintenance" of the body & the mind but that lack of sleep wouldn’t kill you in itself. However there is no doubt sleeping is essential to psychological and physical health. I also sometimes struggle with insomnia and I recommend reading "Why we sleep". It helped me understand sleep better than I would have thought and it actually helped me manage insomnia. The book is also actually really captivating which is a good thing given I thought I knew enough about sleep hygiene. I was so wrong.
- trishmapow2 3y ago
  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatal_insomnia https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatal_insomnia
  - cnity 3y ago
    The causality of this condition is not the same. Prion issues cause both sleeplessness and death, which is not the same thing as sleep deprivation leading to death. Thanks for the link though, this is interesting.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- vbezhenar 3y ago
  Yes, creatures definitely die with sleep deprivation. Obviously you won't try that on humans, but for mices it's a known phenomena, they die quick enough. So sleep is necessary for basic body chemistry at least.
- silisili 3y ago
  Adding another link, rats were shown to die under sleep deprivation. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2928622/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2928622/
  - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
    "...measurement of EE, based upon caloric value of food, weight, and wastes, indicated that all TSD rats increased EE, with mean levels reaching more than twice baseline values." What the hell were their bodies doing?
- tibbydudeza 3y ago
  There is a genetic disease from an Italian family (Fatal Insominia) - they cannot sleep even with the help of medication and die a few months later due to heart failure.
- southernplaces7 3y ago
  Well, in many authoritarians and totalitarian police states, state security organs have practiced extreme sleep deprivation as a way of breaking people, and sometimes killing them too. (Also something practiced by more than a few democracies in their uglier moments and aspects). One particular anecdote that I've read described in detail was how during the worst days of the Stalinist Soviet state, the NKVD (predecessor to the KGB but much more brutal and lethal) in its obsession to get signed confessions from arrested prisoners, would put them on what was commonly called the "conveyer belt" Solzhenitsyn described it graphically in his book as a process by which a prisoner would be interrogated in turns by an unbroken chain of well-rested NKVD interrogators whose added-together job was to never once let that victim sleep. This was described as killing many of these people within a month or less even though they were fed and given water (sometimes even by force with tubes down their throats, since the point was breaking them, not killing them directly through starvation or thirst). In some cases there were of course also severe beatings and other tortures that could have easily been partial causes of death, but I remember the author describing cases where victims' hearts would finally stop as they descended into slow madness even if they weren't beaten at all over the course of those sleepless weeks. Extreme sleep deprivation can kill, i'm sure of it.
mettamage 3y ago
To me dreams feel more like a side effect of sleep. The fact that one is asleep is the restful part. Dreams do give some insight, but often times I don't dream at all (as in I don't remember them) and feel really well rested as well. Sometimes I only get by on power naps and those power naps are pretty good too.
jakeogh 3y ago
If I wasn't sleeping, that would be an emergency. Not sleeping will end a life. Whatever is going on, whatever I was doing or not doing. I would (try to) sleep in a random field without any "need xyz for 3+ days (other than water and a multivitamin, fasting)" even if it's prescription or life assumption whatever. Just to see. Just to sleep. Unexpected and unnoticed things can dramatically effect sleep.

pjerem 3y ago

Are you sure about people dying from lack of sleep ? I read the opposite but I lack proof. To me sleeping is an essential "maintenance" of the body & the mind but that lack of sleep wouldn’t kill you in itself. However there is no doubt sleeping is essential to psychological and physical health. I also sometimes struggle with insomnia and I recommend reading "Why we sleep". It helped me understand sleep better than I would have thought and it actually helped me manage insomnia. The book is also actually really captivating which is a good thing given I thought I knew enough about sleep hygiene. I was so wrong.

trishmapow2 3y ago
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatal_insomnia https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatal_insomnia
- cnity 3y ago
  The causality of this condition is not the same. Prion issues cause both sleeplessness and death, which is not the same thing as sleep deprivation leading to death. Thanks for the link though, this is interesting.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
vbezhenar 3y ago
Yes, creatures definitely die with sleep deprivation. Obviously you won't try that on humans, but for mices it's a known phenomena, they die quick enough. So sleep is necessary for basic body chemistry at least.
silisili 3y ago
Adding another link, rats were shown to die under sleep deprivation. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2928622/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2928622/
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago
  "...measurement of EE, based upon caloric value of food, weight, and wastes, indicated that all TSD rats increased EE, with mean levels reaching more than twice baseline values." What the hell were their bodies doing?
tibbydudeza 3y ago
There is a genetic disease from an Italian family (Fatal Insominia) - they cannot sleep even with the help of medication and die a few months later due to heart failure.
southernplaces7 3y ago
Well, in many authoritarians and totalitarian police states, state security organs have practiced extreme sleep deprivation as a way of breaking people, and sometimes killing them too. (Also something practiced by more than a few democracies in their uglier moments and aspects). One particular anecdote that I've read described in detail was how during the worst days of the Stalinist Soviet state, the NKVD (predecessor to the KGB but much more brutal and lethal) in its obsession to get signed confessions from arrested prisoners, would put them on what was commonly called the "conveyer belt" Solzhenitsyn described it graphically in his book as a process by which a prisoner would be interrogated in turns by an unbroken chain of well-rested NKVD interrogators whose added-together job was to never once let that victim sleep. This was described as killing many of these people within a month or less even though they were fed and given water (sometimes even by force with tubes down their throats, since the point was breaking them, not killing them directly through starvation or thirst). In some cases there were of course also severe beatings and other tortures that could have easily been partial causes of death, but I remember the author describing cases where victims' hearts would finally stop as they descended into slow madness even if they weren't beaten at all over the course of those sleepless weeks. Extreme sleep deprivation can kill, i'm sure of it.

mettamage 3y ago

To me dreams feel more like a side effect of sleep. The fact that one is asleep is the restful part. Dreams do give some insight, but often times I don't dream at all (as in I don't remember them) and feel really well rested as well. Sometimes I only get by on power naps and those power naps are pretty good too.

jakeogh 3y ago

If I wasn't sleeping, that would be an emergency. Not sleeping will end a life. Whatever is going on, whatever I was doing or not doing. I would (try to) sleep in a random field without any "need xyz for 3+ days (other than water and a multivitamin, fasting)" even if it's prescription or life assumption whatever. Just to see. Just to sleep. Unexpected and unnoticed things can dramatically effect sleep.