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Apparently Boeing has had to pay _billions_ to settle lawsuits related to their shady practices.[0] I wonder how much their competitors partake in similarly une

Apparently Boeing has had to pay _billions_ to settle lawsuits related to their shady practices.[0] I wonder how much their competitors partake in similarly unethical management. https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/what-has-happened-to-boeing-since-the-737-max-crashes/ https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/what-has-happened...

toast0 2y ago
Their competitors take no shortcuts in the manufacture of 737s!
smt88 2y ago
A friend of mine is a safety engineer for an airline and says that Boeing is a disaster and Airbus isn't. The culture at Airbus is still responsible and safety-oriented.
- jajko 2y ago
  As an European even for me this makes me deeply unhappy. World needs 2 strong competitors neck to neck and not 1 dominant one because greedy managers got company into fubar territory. Literally all of us benefit from long term healthy competition. This begs the question - how fucked up bonus incentives must be set that management chose to tank the company in such a way. Very few people are genuinely evil, but these sociopaths always follow the path of money (and power). Maybe for such strategic companies government needs to set the rules, or at least veto them and have some basic oversight. Duopoly ain't completely free market realm.
  - staplers 2y ago
    management chose to tank the company Most don't even know they're nosediving the company. They've spent years inhaling the flatulent business-speak of corporate America and come out believing greed, villainy, and corruption are good for the market and that they are geniuses for taking advantage of the situation.
  - ulfw 2y ago
    COMAC will be the duopoly competitor in the coming decades. They aren't by any means yet, but given enough time and with the trajectory Boeing Commercial Airplanes is going...
    - juanani 2y ago
      [dead]
  - delusional 2y ago
    I doubt they're actually specifically "evil". I think they're just idiots who have never made anything good, and don't know what good looks like.
    - bboygravity 2y ago
      You have to be pretty smart and evil to assasinate your whistle blower in broad daylight with the entire world watching just before he's being heard AND GET AWAY WITH IT. Nothing "idiot" about that. Evil is the right word.
    - nobodyandproud 2y ago
      Jack Welch enjoyed firing people and helped start the enshittification trend. If he wasn’t evil, he was certainly a huge jackass and everyone else—with some exceptions—have been cargo-culting his approach. His mentor was a different breed, and likely what we need again in the US.
      - spacemadness 2y ago
        I think we’ve learned many business leaders are just copycats with no real moral standing or real values other than making share price go up. See most recent layoffs in tech. I wish America cared but we’re all complacent and greedy as a society so nothing will change.
        nobodyandproud 2y ago
        My $0.02: One issue is that we don’t quantify the costs or risks in short-term thinking. I’ve come to believe we don’t know how, and the national security risks and implications are huge.
  - atoav 2y ago
    Living next to a big Airbus site in Eueope I agree, Boeing being weak on safety is bad for Airbus as well. It is time to realize that the practises of a certain type of business manegerial class are extremely damaging to wide parts of what makes our society function. The good times for US manufacturing where times where engineers still ran businesses to some degree. Nowadays it seems that you get managment that comes in and treats a major airplane manufacturer the same as a grocery chain, a fastfood franchise or any other type of business. That means: trying to cut corners, removing all the cladding, externalizing all the costs for a short term win and make sure to be gone once that hidden debt comes due. This is not sustainable, but it generates a lot of money for those people. I am all for holding such types accountable after the fact. You removed X against the advice of your engineers and it lead to catastrophic failure? Jail.
    - boppo1 2y ago
      The FOMC's interventionist three decades of LIRP made it tough to compete with tech companies for ROI. All the corner cutting and personnel squeezing in every industry stems from dipshit centrally planned monetary policy.
m463 2y ago
> competitors You mean like McDonnell Douglas?

toast0 2y ago

Their competitors take no shortcuts in the manufacture of 737s!

smt88 2y ago

A friend of mine is a safety engineer for an airline and says that Boeing is a disaster and Airbus isn't. The culture at Airbus is still responsible and safety-oriented.

jajko 2y ago
As an European even for me this makes me deeply unhappy. World needs 2 strong competitors neck to neck and not 1 dominant one because greedy managers got company into fubar territory. Literally all of us benefit from long term healthy competition. This begs the question - how fucked up bonus incentives must be set that management chose to tank the company in such a way. Very few people are genuinely evil, but these sociopaths always follow the path of money (and power). Maybe for such strategic companies government needs to set the rules, or at least veto them and have some basic oversight. Duopoly ain't completely free market realm.
- staplers 2y ago
  management chose to tank the company Most don't even know they're nosediving the company. They've spent years inhaling the flatulent business-speak of corporate America and come out believing greed, villainy, and corruption are good for the market and that they are geniuses for taking advantage of the situation.
- ulfw 2y ago
  COMAC will be the duopoly competitor in the coming decades. They aren't by any means yet, but given enough time and with the trajectory Boeing Commercial Airplanes is going...
  - juanani 2y ago
    [dead]
- delusional 2y ago
  I doubt they're actually specifically "evil". I think they're just idiots who have never made anything good, and don't know what good looks like.
  - bboygravity 2y ago
    You have to be pretty smart and evil to assasinate your whistle blower in broad daylight with the entire world watching just before he's being heard AND GET AWAY WITH IT. Nothing "idiot" about that. Evil is the right word.
  - nobodyandproud 2y ago
    Jack Welch enjoyed firing people and helped start the enshittification trend. If he wasn’t evil, he was certainly a huge jackass and everyone else—with some exceptions—have been cargo-culting his approach. His mentor was a different breed, and likely what we need again in the US.
    - spacemadness 2y ago
      I think we’ve learned many business leaders are just copycats with no real moral standing or real values other than making share price go up. See most recent layoffs in tech. I wish America cared but we’re all complacent and greedy as a society so nothing will change.
      - nobodyandproud 2y ago
        My $0.02: One issue is that we don’t quantify the costs or risks in short-term thinking. I’ve come to believe we don’t know how, and the national security risks and implications are huge.
- atoav 2y ago
  Living next to a big Airbus site in Eueope I agree, Boeing being weak on safety is bad for Airbus as well. It is time to realize that the practises of a certain type of business manegerial class are extremely damaging to wide parts of what makes our society function. The good times for US manufacturing where times where engineers still ran businesses to some degree. Nowadays it seems that you get managment that comes in and treats a major airplane manufacturer the same as a grocery chain, a fastfood franchise or any other type of business. That means: trying to cut corners, removing all the cladding, externalizing all the costs for a short term win and make sure to be gone once that hidden debt comes due. This is not sustainable, but it generates a lot of money for those people. I am all for holding such types accountable after the fact. You removed X against the advice of your engineers and it lead to catastrophic failure? Jail.
  - boppo1 2y ago
    The FOMC's interventionist three decades of LIRP made it tough to compete with tech companies for ROI. All the corner cutting and personnel squeezing in every industry stems from dipshit centrally planned monetary policy.

m463 2y ago

> competitors You mean like McDonnell Douglas?