7 ms·

I wouldn’t say it’s “Israel” doing this, it’s a belief shared by many (of course not all!) Jews. When your entire ethnic group has only a single tiny country in

I wouldn’t say it’s “Israel” doing this, it’s a belief shared by many (of course not all!) Jews. When your entire ethnic group has only a single tiny country in the entire world that it can call home you tend to take threats against it very seriously. Especially since most Jews in Israel are from the Middle East and if Israel didn’t exist they would literally have no other country in the region they could live in.

bluish29 3y ago
> When your entire ethnic group has only a single tiny country in the entire world that it can call home Are you implying that most of the Jews don't call where they live home? I think this is actually a kind of narrative that actual anti-semite spread about jews in their home countries. Most of Jews live outside Israel if you don't know that [1] And no, most jews in Israel are not from Middle East. They are prominently Europeans [2]. And the arab jews lived in their countries for centuries before the zionist project kicked out and poisoned the whole region against them. They had troubles we have to admit but there is a reason why most of them actually migrate to US, Canada and Europe and not Israel. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_population_by_country https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_population_by_country [2] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Israel https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Israel
- ido 3y ago
  Where in the link [2] does it say that most Israeli Jews are of European decent? Just over half are not Ashkenazi (mostly Jews from the Middle East, Western and central Asia and Ethiopia). Additionally about 20% of Israeli citizens are Palestinian. Less than 40% of the total population are Ashkenazi.
  - bluish29 3y ago
    The comment I was replying to talked about Jewish in israel. They claimed that most of Jews in israel are from Middle East which is wrong and the link shows that. See the table about parental ancestors.
    - ido 3y ago
      I am talking about Jews in Israel. They are a bit more than half Mizrahi/Sephardi/Beta-Israel (not European) and a bit less than half Ashkenazi (European). The vast majority of Sephardi and Mezrahi in Israel are from what are now muslim countries in the Middle East. Together with 20% of the population that are Muslim or Christian Palestinians people of middle-eastern descent comprise well over 50% of the population (~60%).
      - runarberg 2y ago
        I went digging around for numbers in these wikipedia articles: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Israel#Jews https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Israel#Jews https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_Jews#Population https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_Jews#Population These articles agree that Jews of European ancestry comprise around 44.2% vs 44.9% of Middle Eastern and North African (MENA) ancestry. The study that gave these numbers admitted on having methodological limitations, so it may be undercounting MENA ancestry. Another interesting statistic is the paternal ancestral origin of Israeli Jews, with 37% having Israeli paternal origin, 34.6% European, American or Oceanic, and only 27.9% having Asian or African. So at least for the last couple of generations, a plurality of immigrants of of European descent. I’m sorry, but I’m not finding the well over 50% statistic. What is also interesting to me is the lack of official statistics from the Israeli government about this ethnic brake down, especially since they make distinctions between Jews and Arabs, which kind of implies—at least to my ears—Arab Jews should not exist. To my ears Israeli culture fancies it self as European (being a member of UEFA, partaking in Eurovision, etc.). It really looks to me like Israel has made an effort and succeeded in stripping Middle Eastern Jews of their identity[1]. A major tell sign is how Jews of Middle Eastern and North African ancestry speak Hebrew, not Arabic, despite the latter both being a minority language spoken in Israel, and despite the latter being the language of their ancestors. Colonizers often do stunts like these when absorbing the colonized population into their own culture. 1: https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2017/9/20/invention-of-the-mizrahim https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2017/9/20/invention-of-th...
        ido 2y ago
asadotzler 3y ago
[flagged]
- weatherlite 3y ago
  What's the deal with the ethnostate ? I mean, why is a Palestinian ethnostate a good thing but a Jewish ethnostate is horrible?
  - someotherperson 3y ago
    Nobody advocates for a Palestinian ethnostate, it's a concession that was made to resolve the issues after the Jewish refusal of a bi-national solution that would have Jews as the minority.
    - weatherlite 3y ago
      Most Palestinians want a Palestinian ethnostate from the river to the sea.
      - racional 2y ago
        Some do, but reliable percentage data on this topic seems to be hard to come by. And many Israelis (and the current extremist regime) want the exact reverse of course. And make no apologies for this fact.
        tptacek 2y ago
        That's true, regarding the fringe neo-Kahanist "Greater Israel" coalition Netanyahu assembled. But as you know, it's also true of Hamas; that's the "some" you're referring to. Issue polling is tricky, but it's likely that a majority of Israelis oppose the positions of Netayahu's coalition. (It's probably true that a majority of Gazans at this point oppose the Hamas program; it's very difficult to know, because both Israel and Hamas have done their best to make sure that the opinions of ordinary Gazans are suppressed).
throwaway743 3y ago
Have you been to New York or Boca? /s (asking in jest as a jew)

bluish29 3y ago

> When your entire ethnic group has only a single tiny country in the entire world that it can call home Are you implying that most of the Jews don't call where they live home? I think this is actually a kind of narrative that actual anti-semite spread about jews in their home countries. Most of Jews live outside Israel if you don't know that [1] And no, most jews in Israel are not from Middle East. They are prominently Europeans [2]. And the arab jews lived in their countries for centuries before the zionist project kicked out and poisoned the whole region against them. They had troubles we have to admit but there is a reason why most of them actually migrate to US, Canada and Europe and not Israel. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_population_by_country https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_population_by_country [2] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Israel https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Israel

ido 3y ago
Where in the link [2] does it say that most Israeli Jews are of European decent? Just over half are not Ashkenazi (mostly Jews from the Middle East, Western and central Asia and Ethiopia). Additionally about 20% of Israeli citizens are Palestinian. Less than 40% of the total population are Ashkenazi.
- bluish29 3y ago
  The comment I was replying to talked about Jewish in israel. They claimed that most of Jews in israel are from Middle East which is wrong and the link shows that. See the table about parental ancestors.
  - ido 3y ago
    I am talking about Jews in Israel. They are a bit more than half Mizrahi/Sephardi/Beta-Israel (not European) and a bit less than half Ashkenazi (European). The vast majority of Sephardi and Mezrahi in Israel are from what are now muslim countries in the Middle East. Together with 20% of the population that are Muslim or Christian Palestinians people of middle-eastern descent comprise well over 50% of the population (~60%).
    - runarberg 2y ago
      I went digging around for numbers in these wikipedia articles: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Israel#Jews https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Israel#Jews https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_Jews#Population https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_Jews#Population These articles agree that Jews of European ancestry comprise around 44.2% vs 44.9% of Middle Eastern and North African (MENA) ancestry. The study that gave these numbers admitted on having methodological limitations, so it may be undercounting MENA ancestry. Another interesting statistic is the paternal ancestral origin of Israeli Jews, with 37% having Israeli paternal origin, 34.6% European, American or Oceanic, and only 27.9% having Asian or African. So at least for the last couple of generations, a plurality of immigrants of of European descent. I’m sorry, but I’m not finding the well over 50% statistic. What is also interesting to me is the lack of official statistics from the Israeli government about this ethnic brake down, especially since they make distinctions between Jews and Arabs, which kind of implies—at least to my ears—Arab Jews should not exist. To my ears Israeli culture fancies it self as European (being a member of UEFA, partaking in Eurovision, etc.). It really looks to me like Israel has made an effort and succeeded in stripping Middle Eastern Jews of their identity[1]. A major tell sign is how Jews of Middle Eastern and North African ancestry speak Hebrew, not Arabic, despite the latter both being a minority language spoken in Israel, and despite the latter being the language of their ancestors. Colonizers often do stunts like these when absorbing the colonized population into their own culture. 1: https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2017/9/20/invention-of-the-mizrahim https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2017/9/20/invention-of-th...
      - ido 2y ago

asadotzler 3y ago

[flagged]

weatherlite 3y ago
What's the deal with the ethnostate ? I mean, why is a Palestinian ethnostate a good thing but a Jewish ethnostate is horrible?
- someotherperson 3y ago
  Nobody advocates for a Palestinian ethnostate, it's a concession that was made to resolve the issues after the Jewish refusal of a bi-national solution that would have Jews as the minority.
  - weatherlite 3y ago
    Most Palestinians want a Palestinian ethnostate from the river to the sea.
    - racional 2y ago
      Some do, but reliable percentage data on this topic seems to be hard to come by. And many Israelis (and the current extremist regime) want the exact reverse of course. And make no apologies for this fact.
      - tptacek 2y ago
        That's true, regarding the fringe neo-Kahanist "Greater Israel" coalition Netanyahu assembled. But as you know, it's also true of Hamas; that's the "some" you're referring to. Issue polling is tricky, but it's likely that a majority of Israelis oppose the positions of Netayahu's coalition. (It's probably true that a majority of Gazans at this point oppose the Hamas program; it's very difficult to know, because both Israel and Hamas have done their best to make sure that the opinions of ordinary Gazans are suppressed).

throwaway743 3y ago

Have you been to New York or Boca? /s (asking in jest as a jew)