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Yet they can setup automatic license plate readers to enforce "congestion pricing." Once more, those who follow the rules are punished, in favor of those who

Yet they can setup automatic license plate readers to enforce "congestion pricing." Once more, those who follow the rules are punished, in favor of those who don't.

esperent 3y ago
Apples to oranges comparison. There's a reason why we never accepted that humans should wear an identifying number while walking around the streets but we're happy for cars to do this. Facial recognition software is equivalent to humans wearing a license plate. It's never been acceptable before and it's not acceptable now.
- akira2501 3y ago
  I didn't make the comparison clear. The MTA can't catch fare evaders because facial recognition is bad. The NYC government can read peoples license plates and charge them arbitrary prices, partially, because the MTA is so broke. So, fare evaders continue to get a free rides, in exchange for similarly Orwellian recording and logging of all vehicles entering and exiting certain parts of the city, which is effectively only one layer of abstraction different than scanning faces. Apples to pears, really. It's what they do with the data in the long term that should be concerning in both cases.
  - aaomidi 3y ago
    Cars are a luxury item for most in NYC. Tolling roads is as old as cars themselves. There’s nothing new here.
    - akira2501 3y ago
      Then I guess getting a plumber or an electrician to fix problems is a luxury item for everyone in NYC now too. Toll roads are not the exclusive route to and from a given area yet this system is. The tolls aren't even funding the road they're funding a broken public transportation system. There's a lot that's new here which is why this exact thing is often in the news.
      - aaomidi 3y ago
        Tolling roads to fund public transportation is actually a really good way of funding public transport.
llamaimperative 3y ago
Obviously the only people punished by ALPRs for congestion pricing are people who are breaking the rules… You can’t see a distinction between the government’s ability to read a government-issued and totally optional identifier versus a… face?
pempem 3y ago
Its not a "yet", its an effort that is part of a larger one. LIDAR and facial recognition should not be used. We should be against both. Congestion pricing hits the lowest earning individual the highest. Congestion pricing should follow measurable improvements to public transit, focusing on the word "improvements".
- agrajag 3y ago
  > Congestion pricing hits the lowest earning individual the highest. This is true for anything that you buy. I’m not sure why being able to drive a car into the Manhattan CBD deserves special treatment. It also already has an excellent subway system that millions take daily. You can’t means test virtually everything
- llamaimperative 3y ago
  Just set the fees to be a % of income + % of net worth. If you want to skip the complexity, making it a % of the current KBB value of the car that earned the ticket will be >99% just. A few rich people driving shitboxes around Midtown to avoid expensive fees sounds like a fine outcome to me.
- LeafItAlone 3y ago
  > Congestion pricing hits the lowest earning individual the highest. Can you tell me more? In most places, that does seem obvious. In NYC, it seems less obvious to me. The friends of mine who complaining about congestion pricing rules are the upper/upper middle class folks who have not been on public transportation since Bloomberg’s first term. My friend who are lower income use public transportation everywhere.
  - pempem 3y ago
    In NYC there's a lot of public transportation however we're seeing its proposal in LA and other poor public transportation cities. In spaces where you need a car to get around it can be very hard. A bus here in southern california can take an hour when the drive takes 15 minutes or less.
wilg 3y ago
Who is being punished for following the rules?
- Larrikin 3y ago
  People that want to steal from the MTA but can afford to pay and are too scared to jump the turnstile. Just them.

Yet they can setup automatic license plate readers to enforce "congestion pricing." Once more, those who follow the rules are punished, in favor of those who don't.

esperent 3y ago

Apples to oranges comparison. There's a reason why we never accepted that humans should wear an identifying number while walking around the streets but we're happy for cars to do this. Facial recognition software is equivalent to humans wearing a license plate. It's never been acceptable before and it's not acceptable now.

akira2501 3y ago
I didn't make the comparison clear. The MTA can't catch fare evaders because facial recognition is bad. The NYC government can read peoples license plates and charge them arbitrary prices, partially, because the MTA is so broke. So, fare evaders continue to get a free rides, in exchange for similarly Orwellian recording and logging of all vehicles entering and exiting certain parts of the city, which is effectively only one layer of abstraction different than scanning faces. Apples to pears, really. It's what they do with the data in the long term that should be concerning in both cases.
- aaomidi 3y ago
  Cars are a luxury item for most in NYC. Tolling roads is as old as cars themselves. There’s nothing new here.
  - akira2501 3y ago
    Then I guess getting a plumber or an electrician to fix problems is a luxury item for everyone in NYC now too. Toll roads are not the exclusive route to and from a given area yet this system is. The tolls aren't even funding the road they're funding a broken public transportation system. There's a lot that's new here which is why this exact thing is often in the news.
    - aaomidi 3y ago
      Tolling roads to fund public transportation is actually a really good way of funding public transport.

llamaimperative 3y ago

Obviously the only people punished by ALPRs for congestion pricing are people who are breaking the rules… You can’t see a distinction between the government’s ability to read a government-issued and totally optional identifier versus a… face?

pempem 3y ago

Its not a "yet", its an effort that is part of a larger one. LIDAR and facial recognition should not be used. We should be against both. Congestion pricing hits the lowest earning individual the highest. Congestion pricing should follow measurable improvements to public transit, focusing on the word "improvements".

agrajag 3y ago
> Congestion pricing hits the lowest earning individual the highest. This is true for anything that you buy. I’m not sure why being able to drive a car into the Manhattan CBD deserves special treatment. It also already has an excellent subway system that millions take daily. You can’t means test virtually everything
llamaimperative 3y ago
Just set the fees to be a % of income + % of net worth. If you want to skip the complexity, making it a % of the current KBB value of the car that earned the ticket will be >99% just. A few rich people driving shitboxes around Midtown to avoid expensive fees sounds like a fine outcome to me.
LeafItAlone 3y ago
> Congestion pricing hits the lowest earning individual the highest. Can you tell me more? In most places, that does seem obvious. In NYC, it seems less obvious to me. The friends of mine who complaining about congestion pricing rules are the upper/upper middle class folks who have not been on public transportation since Bloomberg’s first term. My friend who are lower income use public transportation everywhere.
- pempem 3y ago
  In NYC there's a lot of public transportation however we're seeing its proposal in LA and other poor public transportation cities. In spaces where you need a car to get around it can be very hard. A bus here in southern california can take an hour when the drive takes 15 minutes or less.

wilg 3y ago

Who is being punished for following the rules?

Larrikin 3y ago
People that want to steal from the MTA but can afford to pay and are too scared to jump the turnstile. Just them.