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Just one example: "Eby’s remarks on the encampment came after he and other politicians denounced an earlier demonstration in Vancouver where protesters chanted

by nsguy 2y ago

Just one example: "Eby’s remarks on the encampment came after he and other politicians denounced an earlier demonstration in Vancouver where protesters chanted “long live Oct. 7,” praising that day’s attacks by Hamas on Israel." https://www.cheknews.ca/eby-deplores-most-hateful-speech-praising-hamas-attack-as-ubc-protest-camp-begins-1201591/ https://www.cheknews.ca/eby-deplores-most-hateful-speech-pra... https://nationalpost.com/opinion/group-banned-in-germany-gets-carte-blanche-in-canada-to-glorify-hamas-massacre https://nationalpost.com/opinion/group-banned-in-germany-get... I think Israel's PR machine is very ineffective. It's swamped by anti-Israeli PR. E.g. where do you get "bombing of hospitals"? How many hospitals in Gaza were bombed? Which hospitals specifically are they, what were the circumstances, what damage did they sustain?

Georgelemental 2y ago
> bombing of hospitals https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2024/01/middleeast/gaza-hospitals-destruction-investigation-intl-cmd/ https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2024/01/middleeast/gaza-hosp... https://www.aljazeera.com/news/longform/2024/4/18/satellite-images-reveal-israeli-destruction-of-hospitals-in-gaza https://www.aljazeera.com/news/longform/2024/4/18/satellite-... https://www.aa.com.tr/en/middle-east/jordan-field-hospital-in-embattled-gaza-out-of-service-due-to-israeli-attacks/3020030 https://www.aa.com.tr/en/middle-east/jordan-field-hospital-i... https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/12/18/bloodbath-israel-keeps-hitting-gaza-hospitals-amid-international-uproar https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/12/18/bloodbath-israel-k... https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/26/world/middleeast/gaza-israel-hospitals-medical-system.html https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/26/world/middleeast/gaza-isr... https://www.who.int/news/item/06-04-2024-six-months-of-war-leave-al-shifa-hospital-in-ruins--who-mission-reports https://www.who.int/news/item/06-04-2024-six-months-of-war-l...
- nsguy 2y ago
  I briefly scanned through the links but they conflate "damaged", "crater near hospital close enough for fragments to hit hospital" and other unknowns. the WHO link which we can maybe take as authoritative does not refer to any bombed hospital. We all know there was a huge battle in Al Shifa where the IDF killed an arrested hundreds of Hamas operatives (and has published videos from their interrogations and videos from the battles going on inside the hospital). "A field hospital in the embattled Gaza Strip run by neighboring Jordan reportedly can no longer provide health care due to Israeli attacks and the disruption of access roads. The hospital in Gaza is out of service due to damage inflicted by Israeli attacks, as well as Israeli bombing of surrounding areas and the disruption of access roads, as reported on Jordan's official television channel on Saturday." from one of the articles does not mention the actual hospital was bombed. it says "damage due to attacks" (unclear) and "bombing of the surrounding areas" (which is not bombing a hospital).
  - Georgelemental 2y ago
    From CNN's investigation (first link): > Satellite imagery showed craters near 11 of the hospitals were consistent with those left behind by 2,000-pound bombs. The munitions were dropped near enough for the hospitals to be within the lethal fragmentation radius, which is up to 365 meters (about 1,198 feet). > Fourteen hospitals were directly hit. Several, including Al-Shifa and Al-Quds, appeared to have been attacked by Israel.
xyst 2y ago
In the Vancouver demonstration referenced by “Eby”, I see the chants were from a group called “ Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP).” Appears to be a known terrorist organization. Is this organization affiliated with ALL or most of the college campus organizers we see across the USA? Something I’ll have to ask and bring up. Something smells odd. In the second article, it references a group or network called “ Samidoun Prisoners Solidarity Network” which again appears to have links to PFLP. Maybe the fundraising and propaganda machine arm. All sources indicate both orgs with ties to past violence but does that mean that these 2 orgs are tied to every college campus student org as well? Nothing is quite clear here. Not enough information. Need some real journalists to clear the air. I agree. These orgs and people are disgusting. But the gatherings and protests I have been to have not chanted anything of this sort. Not even a dog whistle as mentioned in some comments. I’ll have to do more digging though. Thanks for providing some links though
- nsguy 2y ago
  I would have no problem with protests that clearly decouple themselves from the militant groups and clearly call for peace for everyone (ideally with some idea of how we actually get there). I would join those. My problem is I'm not seeing the decoupling and I'm not seeing calls for peace. I'm seeing calls to punish Israelis (from burn down Tel Aviv to divestment and boycott) which in my opinion does not help peace at all and definitely a militant tone associated with that.

by nsguy 2y ago

Georgelemental 2y ago

> bombing of hospitals https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2024/01/middleeast/gaza-hospitals-destruction-investigation-intl-cmd/ https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2024/01/middleeast/gaza-hosp... https://www.aljazeera.com/news/longform/2024/4/18/satellite-images-reveal-israeli-destruction-of-hospitals-in-gaza https://www.aljazeera.com/news/longform/2024/4/18/satellite-... https://www.aa.com.tr/en/middle-east/jordan-field-hospital-in-embattled-gaza-out-of-service-due-to-israeli-attacks/3020030 https://www.aa.com.tr/en/middle-east/jordan-field-hospital-i... https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/12/18/bloodbath-israel-keeps-hitting-gaza-hospitals-amid-international-uproar https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/12/18/bloodbath-israel-k... https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/26/world/middleeast/gaza-israel-hospitals-medical-system.html https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/26/world/middleeast/gaza-isr... https://www.who.int/news/item/06-04-2024-six-months-of-war-leave-al-shifa-hospital-in-ruins--who-mission-reports https://www.who.int/news/item/06-04-2024-six-months-of-war-l...

nsguy 2y ago
I briefly scanned through the links but they conflate "damaged", "crater near hospital close enough for fragments to hit hospital" and other unknowns. the WHO link which we can maybe take as authoritative does not refer to any bombed hospital. We all know there was a huge battle in Al Shifa where the IDF killed an arrested hundreds of Hamas operatives (and has published videos from their interrogations and videos from the battles going on inside the hospital). "A field hospital in the embattled Gaza Strip run by neighboring Jordan reportedly can no longer provide health care due to Israeli attacks and the disruption of access roads. The hospital in Gaza is out of service due to damage inflicted by Israeli attacks, as well as Israeli bombing of surrounding areas and the disruption of access roads, as reported on Jordan's official television channel on Saturday." from one of the articles does not mention the actual hospital was bombed. it says "damage due to attacks" (unclear) and "bombing of the surrounding areas" (which is not bombing a hospital).
- Georgelemental 2y ago
  From CNN's investigation (first link): > Satellite imagery showed craters near 11 of the hospitals were consistent with those left behind by 2,000-pound bombs. The munitions were dropped near enough for the hospitals to be within the lethal fragmentation radius, which is up to 365 meters (about 1,198 feet). > Fourteen hospitals were directly hit. Several, including Al-Shifa and Al-Quds, appeared to have been attacked by Israel.

xyst 2y ago

In the Vancouver demonstration referenced by “Eby”, I see the chants were from a group called “ Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP).” Appears to be a known terrorist organization. Is this organization affiliated with ALL or most of the college campus organizers we see across the USA? Something I’ll have to ask and bring up. Something smells odd. In the second article, it references a group or network called “ Samidoun Prisoners Solidarity Network” which again appears to have links to PFLP. Maybe the fundraising and propaganda machine arm. All sources indicate both orgs with ties to past violence but does that mean that these 2 orgs are tied to every college campus student org as well? Nothing is quite clear here. Not enough information. Need some real journalists to clear the air. I agree. These orgs and people are disgusting. But the gatherings and protests I have been to have not chanted anything of this sort. Not even a dog whistle as mentioned in some comments. I’ll have to do more digging though. Thanks for providing some links though

nsguy 2y ago
I would have no problem with protests that clearly decouple themselves from the militant groups and clearly call for peace for everyone (ideally with some idea of how we actually get there). I would join those. My problem is I'm not seeing the decoupling and I'm not seeing calls for peace. I'm seeing calls to punish Israelis (from burn down Tel Aviv to divestment and boycott) which in my opinion does not help peace at all and definitely a militant tone associated with that.