5 ms·

It's a nifty solution. But speaking as a music engraver, it could use a lot of improvement, and I don't think there's enough tolerance in CSS to make it work. T

It's a nifty solution. But speaking as a music engraver, it could use a lot of improvement, and I don't think there's enough tolerance in CSS to make it work. The beams, slurs, and ties, in particular have real problems visually. This is why other methods of getting notation into the browser don't use such tools. You need pinpoint precision for vector rendering, which is why almost all browser notation is done with SVG or some sort of Canvas drawing. Other than the clever solution of using CSS, why would you do this? One can already do scalable notation in the browser with other tools (Check out Adrian Holovaty's Soundslice or Sibelius Cloud Publishing).

scop 2y ago
What is a music engraver? I could google it, but I would appreciate a music engraver actually telling me vs some random page on the internet.
- itishappy 2y ago
  someone who makes music look pretty https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_engraving https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_engraving
- Tokkemon 2y ago
  Sure. It's an old-fashioned term for the artisans who engraved music notation onto metal plates. These were then inked for pressing. It's a highly specialized skill and requires a deep knowledge of now notation works and how musicians will respond to it. Today it is all done on computer but the artistry of knowing how the notation should look and the meaning behind it is still there. That's the basics but the work we do is quite varied and complicated. It happens that I work for Avid as a designer for Sibelius, the leading music notation program in the world. I also run the Music Engraving Tips Facebook group if you're interested in learning more.
  - analog31 2y ago
    As a player (jazz bassist) I'm amazed by the subtlety of making notation work. Oddly enough, most of my band's material is still not in computer readable form. A lot of it was hand copied.
  - amiga386 2y ago
    That's very much it. You could also make an analogy to the arts of typography and typesetting. It's of the same importance to a composer or musician that the notation is legible and beautiful, as it is to a graphic designer or reader that type and layout are legible and beautiful. If the GP is interested in the topic, there are great videos by Tantacrul on his experience redesigning the notation font for MuseScore [0] and his overview of MuseScore 4.0's engraving improvements [1] - in particular this second video, concerning mainly layout, shows just how far this CSS approach would have to go to have a truly legible, reflowable layout in the face of beams/slurs/ties. (I don't want to take away from anyone on the Sibelius team, they're likely even better experts on the subject than Tantacrul is, but as far as I know, they didn't make long-form Youtube videos about the topic! He also likely got the job of leading the MuseScore redesign thanks to his previous videos that critiqued and reimagined the interfaces of music composition software... including older versions of Sibelius [2] and MuseScore [3]) [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGo4PJd1lng https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGo4PJd1lng [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qct6LKbneKQ&t=2004 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qct6LKbneKQ&t=2004 [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKx1wnXClcI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKx1wnXClcI [3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hZxo96x48A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hZxo96x48A
    - blitt 2y ago
      I know absolutely nothing about notation software, but I remember watching that MuseScore rewrite video (link [1] above) a few months ago and was absolutely enthralled. Definitely recommend watching Tantacrul's videos to anyone who wants to learn more.
- n_plus_1_acc 2y ago
  It the equivalent of typesetting for music. Choosing fonts/styles, nudging spacing, improving redability, experimenting with page layout, etc
  - Tokkemon 2y ago
    Sort of, there's a lot more editorial that goes into it than only typesetting.
bubiniccxxbb 2y ago
[dead]
mbo 2y ago
> Other than the clever solution of using CSS, why would you do this? Seems lightweight enough for maybe a music theory blog post or interactive notebook.
xhevahir 2y ago
>One can already do scalable notation in the browser with other tools (Check out Adrian Holovaty's Soundslice or Sibelius Cloud Publishing). Can either of those be incorporated in one's own software, without paying somebody? (I don't see a license for this project, but I'm guessing it will be a lot more permissive than whatever that Sibelius thing has.) Also, the examples for this project are simple leadsheets. I think your average jazz musician is probably a lot less fussy about notation than a professional music engraver would be.

scop 2y ago

What is a music engraver? I could google it, but I would appreciate a music engraver actually telling me vs some random page on the internet.

itishappy 2y ago
someone who makes music look pretty https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_engraving https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_engraving
Tokkemon 2y ago
Sure. It's an old-fashioned term for the artisans who engraved music notation onto metal plates. These were then inked for pressing. It's a highly specialized skill and requires a deep knowledge of now notation works and how musicians will respond to it. Today it is all done on computer but the artistry of knowing how the notation should look and the meaning behind it is still there. That's the basics but the work we do is quite varied and complicated. It happens that I work for Avid as a designer for Sibelius, the leading music notation program in the world. I also run the Music Engraving Tips Facebook group if you're interested in learning more.
- analog31 2y ago
  As a player (jazz bassist) I'm amazed by the subtlety of making notation work. Oddly enough, most of my band's material is still not in computer readable form. A lot of it was hand copied.
- amiga386 2y ago
  That's very much it. You could also make an analogy to the arts of typography and typesetting. It's of the same importance to a composer or musician that the notation is legible and beautiful, as it is to a graphic designer or reader that type and layout are legible and beautiful. If the GP is interested in the topic, there are great videos by Tantacrul on his experience redesigning the notation font for MuseScore [0] and his overview of MuseScore 4.0's engraving improvements [1] - in particular this second video, concerning mainly layout, shows just how far this CSS approach would have to go to have a truly legible, reflowable layout in the face of beams/slurs/ties. (I don't want to take away from anyone on the Sibelius team, they're likely even better experts on the subject than Tantacrul is, but as far as I know, they didn't make long-form Youtube videos about the topic! He also likely got the job of leading the MuseScore redesign thanks to his previous videos that critiqued and reimagined the interfaces of music composition software... including older versions of Sibelius [2] and MuseScore [3]) [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGo4PJd1lng https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGo4PJd1lng [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qct6LKbneKQ&t=2004 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qct6LKbneKQ&t=2004 [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKx1wnXClcI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKx1wnXClcI [3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hZxo96x48A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hZxo96x48A
  - blitt 2y ago
    I know absolutely nothing about notation software, but I remember watching that MuseScore rewrite video (link [1] above) a few months ago and was absolutely enthralled. Definitely recommend watching Tantacrul's videos to anyone who wants to learn more.
n_plus_1_acc 2y ago
It the equivalent of typesetting for music. Choosing fonts/styles, nudging spacing, improving redability, experimenting with page layout, etc
- Tokkemon 2y ago
  Sort of, there's a lot more editorial that goes into it than only typesetting.

bubiniccxxbb 2y ago

[dead]

mbo 2y ago

> Other than the clever solution of using CSS, why would you do this? Seems lightweight enough for maybe a music theory blog post or interactive notebook.

xhevahir 2y ago

>One can already do scalable notation in the browser with other tools (Check out Adrian Holovaty's Soundslice or Sibelius Cloud Publishing). Can either of those be incorporated in one's own software, without paying somebody? (I don't see a license for this project, but I'm guessing it will be a lot more permissive than whatever that Sibelius thing has.) Also, the examples for this project are simple leadsheets. I think your average jazz musician is probably a lot less fussy about notation than a professional music engraver would be.