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I have a decent amount of Tesla shares, that I purchased around 2017. All I want is a shareholder vote to get rid of Elon. His time has passed.

cbeach 2y ago
So, a very smart CEO works for six years to turn a minor automotive startup into the world’s most valuable car company, enriching you while you sat on shares in the company. And despite this, you think he deserves his compensation (in the form of shares in the company) to be cancelled? Even though it was contractually promised, and agreed by shareholders? Bear in mind that the package is only worth a large amount because Tesla has grown so hugely under Musk’s leadership. I’m interested to know how many other HNers also hold this belief, or think this is a reasonable way to treat entrepreneurs in America?
- JojoFatsani 2y ago
  Not OP but as a very minor shareholder.. I think it’s reasonable not to allow a single employee to be compensated (55b$) more than all the EBITDA the company has ever made. I think it’s reasonable to question the decision making demonstrated by firing the most successful team at the company and put the major competitive advantage at risk. I think it’s reasonable to question the constant monkeying with product and design (Cybertruck, removal of loved features like LIDAR or physical wiper blade controls). I think it’s reasonable to question how the CEO has lost first mover advantage so badly by failing to improve products and introduce new models as the legacy competition and foreign companies quickly have caught up. I think it’s reasonable to want an engaged, full-time CEO who is not distracted by executive responsibilities at several other ventures, half of which are actively failing as well.
  - cbeach 2y ago
    When the deal was agreed, it wasn't worth anything close to $55bn. It's only worth that now due to the incredible rise in value of the stock under Musk. A deal is a deal. As a £six-figure shareholder I am voting for Musk to be paid what he is owed (in the June 13th meeting). And voting for Tesla to incorporate in a state where judges don't make arbitrary decisions on executive pay We don't know the full details of the Supercharger team's "firing" yet, so let's not speculate. Reuters speculated when they reported about the cancellation of the affordable Model 2, and they got that reporting horribly wrong (damaging the stock price with their error). As for Superchargers being a major competitive advantage, that's no longer the case, as the network is open to cars from other brands. Tesla hasn't lost its first mover advantage. Name another American or European carmaker that sells as many EVs as Tesla. BYD briefly caught up in terms of raw sales figures, but that trend quickly reversed when China's economic woes weighed on the company. As for "failing to improve products," the Model S has been improved in so many meaningful ways, it's practically a new car. The performance (0-60 in 1.99s) is absolutely mind-bending, and Tesla's innovations such as the carbon-wrapped motor are responsible for this. > I think it’s reasonable to want an engaged, full-time CEO who is not distracted by executive responsibilities at several other ventures, half of which are actively failing as well. Which ones are failing? SpaceX is untouchable. Neuralink successfully implanted a brain/computer interface in a paraplegic man. X.com delivers features at a greater rate than Twitter 1.0, at lower operational cost, and -more importantly- it is defending free speech. xAI just secured $6bn in funding, with its value soaring to $18bn. All of which was acheived by a man who is "distracted." And other companies that Musk co-founded (e.g. OpenAI, PayPal), seem to be ticking along nicely also.
    - redserk 2y ago
      > A deal is a deal. Not if the deal had one party misrepresent the information they knew, such as in this case.
    - greedo 2y ago
      So let's see what you're really trying to say... 1. You want corporations, that already have huge protections, and relatively weak governance to re-domicile in states that offer even less regulations. 2. You assume that Tesla couldn't possibly make a bad decision regarding the Supercharger team and are casting reports of its demise as mere speculation when the leader of that team is terminated, and members of the team are reporting its demise. 3. You're stating that the Model 2 is still alive, and will be here any time soon! 4. That the Supercharger network isn't a competitive advantage. 5. Tesla hasn't lost its first mover advantage when the number of well-financed competitors has increased dramatically over the last 10 years. 6. That the Model S (which sells in minuscule amounts) is indicative of Tesla improving its product line up. 7. That X is succeeding when it's bleeding advertisers, and its value is continually being downgraded by banks. 8. And that OpenAI and PayPal owe their success to Musk who was minimally involved in OpenAI, and Musk hasn't been involved with PayPal for 23+ years. Who's delusional here? As Upton Sinclair famously said, "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it."
      - cbeach 2y ago
        1. I want the people who built and own corporations to be able to decide what they pay their staff. If the Delaware judge wants to decide what Tesla employees get paid, she can do - but she needs to own enough of the company to have that decision-making power. 2. That's not what I said. I just said that we need to wait until all the facts and strategy emerges, rather than going on a few statements by individuals who are not (or no longer) involved in Tesla 3. Yes, as confirmed by Musk in the earnings call. 4. It used to be. It's not any more, because it's open to all carmakers, as I said 5. Well financed maybe. Fisker, Nikola, Rivian etc - they all got surprising amounts of financing. That doesn't mean they've displaced Tesla, or come anywhere near displacing Tesla. I'd advise you to read the news about Tesla competitors, both legacy and new - look how many BEVs they're shipping vs Tesla, and look at their margins on each vehicle sold. I think you might be surprised at how far Tesla leads the field 6. I gave the carbon-wrapped motor as an example of Tesla innovations. It's one of many. The refreshed Model 3 is also an example of how Tesla is improving products. You claimed Tesla is "failing" to improve products. There are many counterexamples that refute that statement 7. X bled advertisers yes. But it's still a great social network, and that's all I care about. Elon didn't buy Twitter in order to make money. He bought it because the West needs a platform that prioritises free speech (as far as legally possible). X.com is imperfect but it's an improvement on Twitter. I don't care if it's "downgraded by banks." The whole point of Elon owning Twitter is that it no longer serves the interests of a few powerful people and institutions, and instead is an inclusive platform for people across the political spectrum. 8. Musk co-founded OpenAI. If he was "minimally involved" he wouldn't be listed as a co-founder. PayPal used to be called "X.com" Guess who owned that domain name? It was renamed to "PayPal" when Elon was ousted from the management structure. I'd recommend reading up on the history here. It's very interesting - lots of twists and turns.
- ProjectArcturis 2y ago
  You're giving Musk a lot more credit for the share price than he deserves. If there hadn't been a pandemic, and stimulus checks, and people playing on Robinhood for fun, TSLA wouldn't have gone up nearly so much. Put another way, sure, the stock price went above the targets he set for himself. How much did profits go up?
ProjectArcturis 2y ago
Why would you want TSLA to be valued like a normal car company?
- r00fus 2y ago
  It's going to be worth a lot less if Elon does to Tesla what he did to Twitter.
  - meepmorp 2y ago
    > if Elon does to Tesla what he did to Twitter. Meme his way into taking the company private at a wildly inflated price per share? That's not a problem, that's a deus ex machina.
constantcrying 2y ago
Musk is obviously the best thing that has happened to Tesla. Tesla the auto company is near worthless, Tesla the "making dreams real" company is worth money. Musk is the reason Tesla is the later and not the former.
- Sohcahtoa82 2y ago
  > Tesla the "making dreams real" company is worth money. That company no longer exists.

cbeach 2y ago

So, a very smart CEO works for six years to turn a minor automotive startup into the world’s most valuable car company, enriching you while you sat on shares in the company. And despite this, you think he deserves his compensation (in the form of shares in the company) to be cancelled? Even though it was contractually promised, and agreed by shareholders? Bear in mind that the package is only worth a large amount because Tesla has grown so hugely under Musk’s leadership. I’m interested to know how many other HNers also hold this belief, or think this is a reasonable way to treat entrepreneurs in America?

JojoFatsani 2y ago
Not OP but as a very minor shareholder.. I think it’s reasonable not to allow a single employee to be compensated (55b$) more than all the EBITDA the company has ever made. I think it’s reasonable to question the decision making demonstrated by firing the most successful team at the company and put the major competitive advantage at risk. I think it’s reasonable to question the constant monkeying with product and design (Cybertruck, removal of loved features like LIDAR or physical wiper blade controls). I think it’s reasonable to question how the CEO has lost first mover advantage so badly by failing to improve products and introduce new models as the legacy competition and foreign companies quickly have caught up. I think it’s reasonable to want an engaged, full-time CEO who is not distracted by executive responsibilities at several other ventures, half of which are actively failing as well.
- cbeach 2y ago
  When the deal was agreed, it wasn't worth anything close to $55bn. It's only worth that now due to the incredible rise in value of the stock under Musk. A deal is a deal. As a £six-figure shareholder I am voting for Musk to be paid what he is owed (in the June 13th meeting). And voting for Tesla to incorporate in a state where judges don't make arbitrary decisions on executive pay We don't know the full details of the Supercharger team's "firing" yet, so let's not speculate. Reuters speculated when they reported about the cancellation of the affordable Model 2, and they got that reporting horribly wrong (damaging the stock price with their error). As for Superchargers being a major competitive advantage, that's no longer the case, as the network is open to cars from other brands. Tesla hasn't lost its first mover advantage. Name another American or European carmaker that sells as many EVs as Tesla. BYD briefly caught up in terms of raw sales figures, but that trend quickly reversed when China's economic woes weighed on the company. As for "failing to improve products," the Model S has been improved in so many meaningful ways, it's practically a new car. The performance (0-60 in 1.99s) is absolutely mind-bending, and Tesla's innovations such as the carbon-wrapped motor are responsible for this. > I think it’s reasonable to want an engaged, full-time CEO who is not distracted by executive responsibilities at several other ventures, half of which are actively failing as well. Which ones are failing? SpaceX is untouchable. Neuralink successfully implanted a brain/computer interface in a paraplegic man. X.com delivers features at a greater rate than Twitter 1.0, at lower operational cost, and -more importantly- it is defending free speech. xAI just secured $6bn in funding, with its value soaring to $18bn. All of which was acheived by a man who is "distracted." And other companies that Musk co-founded (e.g. OpenAI, PayPal), seem to be ticking along nicely also.
  - redserk 2y ago
    > A deal is a deal. Not if the deal had one party misrepresent the information they knew, such as in this case.
  - greedo 2y ago
    So let's see what you're really trying to say... 1. You want corporations, that already have huge protections, and relatively weak governance to re-domicile in states that offer even less regulations. 2. You assume that Tesla couldn't possibly make a bad decision regarding the Supercharger team and are casting reports of its demise as mere speculation when the leader of that team is terminated, and members of the team are reporting its demise. 3. You're stating that the Model 2 is still alive, and will be here any time soon! 4. That the Supercharger network isn't a competitive advantage. 5. Tesla hasn't lost its first mover advantage when the number of well-financed competitors has increased dramatically over the last 10 years. 6. That the Model S (which sells in minuscule amounts) is indicative of Tesla improving its product line up. 7. That X is succeeding when it's bleeding advertisers, and its value is continually being downgraded by banks. 8. And that OpenAI and PayPal owe their success to Musk who was minimally involved in OpenAI, and Musk hasn't been involved with PayPal for 23+ years. Who's delusional here? As Upton Sinclair famously said, "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it."
    - cbeach 2y ago
      1. I want the people who built and own corporations to be able to decide what they pay their staff. If the Delaware judge wants to decide what Tesla employees get paid, she can do - but she needs to own enough of the company to have that decision-making power. 2. That's not what I said. I just said that we need to wait until all the facts and strategy emerges, rather than going on a few statements by individuals who are not (or no longer) involved in Tesla 3. Yes, as confirmed by Musk in the earnings call. 4. It used to be. It's not any more, because it's open to all carmakers, as I said 5. Well financed maybe. Fisker, Nikola, Rivian etc - they all got surprising amounts of financing. That doesn't mean they've displaced Tesla, or come anywhere near displacing Tesla. I'd advise you to read the news about Tesla competitors, both legacy and new - look how many BEVs they're shipping vs Tesla, and look at their margins on each vehicle sold. I think you might be surprised at how far Tesla leads the field 6. I gave the carbon-wrapped motor as an example of Tesla innovations. It's one of many. The refreshed Model 3 is also an example of how Tesla is improving products. You claimed Tesla is "failing" to improve products. There are many counterexamples that refute that statement 7. X bled advertisers yes. But it's still a great social network, and that's all I care about. Elon didn't buy Twitter in order to make money. He bought it because the West needs a platform that prioritises free speech (as far as legally possible). X.com is imperfect but it's an improvement on Twitter. I don't care if it's "downgraded by banks." The whole point of Elon owning Twitter is that it no longer serves the interests of a few powerful people and institutions, and instead is an inclusive platform for people across the political spectrum. 8. Musk co-founded OpenAI. If he was "minimally involved" he wouldn't be listed as a co-founder. PayPal used to be called "X.com" Guess who owned that domain name? It was renamed to "PayPal" when Elon was ousted from the management structure. I'd recommend reading up on the history here. It's very interesting - lots of twists and turns.
ProjectArcturis 2y ago
You're giving Musk a lot more credit for the share price than he deserves. If there hadn't been a pandemic, and stimulus checks, and people playing on Robinhood for fun, TSLA wouldn't have gone up nearly so much. Put another way, sure, the stock price went above the targets he set for himself. How much did profits go up?

ProjectArcturis 2y ago

Why would you want TSLA to be valued like a normal car company?

r00fus 2y ago
It's going to be worth a lot less if Elon does to Tesla what he did to Twitter.
- meepmorp 2y ago
  > if Elon does to Tesla what he did to Twitter. Meme his way into taking the company private at a wildly inflated price per share? That's not a problem, that's a deus ex machina.

constantcrying 2y ago

Musk is obviously the best thing that has happened to Tesla. Tesla the auto company is near worthless, Tesla the "making dreams real" company is worth money. Musk is the reason Tesla is the later and not the former.

Sohcahtoa82 2y ago
> Tesla the "making dreams real" company is worth money. That company no longer exists.