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Curiously China's very successful economic model - in which capital is more under state control than in private hands, but there's still a competetive market as

Curiously China's very successful economic model - in which capital is more under state control than in private hands, but there's still a competetive market as industrial monopolies are discouraged - isn't brought up here - even though certain major European industrial sectors seem to be finding China more attractive these days, e.g. BASF; https://www.reuters.com/markets/deals/basf-agrees-15-year-gas-supply-deal-with-chinas-enn-2024-04-05/ https://www.reuters.com/markets/deals/basf-agrees-15-year-ga... Apparently the Chinese are working too hard and being too productive, hence Janet Yellen complaining about 'overcapacity' recently: > "I think the Chinese realise how concerned we are about the implications of their industrial strategy, for the United States, for the potential to flood our markets with exports that make it difficult for American firms to compete" Yellen said. "And then other countries have the same concern."

flumpcakes 2y ago
I think China is the workhouse and that's the source of it's power. Ultimately it's a dictatorship with imperial ambitions. It's blatantly using this power already to weaken democracies through IP theft and "overcapacity". It seems like some countries are becoming wary of China and are now moving production to other asian countries. I've seen a few interviews lately of Chinese workers complaining they are no longer employed because the 'west' has moved production abroad and how that's a very bad thing for the world. It seems like people are realising that China has weaponised capitalism. I guess people assumed they would be as benign as Japan in their industrialisation in the 60s-90s.
- juxtapose 2y ago
  It seems you are very ideology-driven, but no, corporations are not moving production out of China because "China bad". It's just because labor costs in China have risen due to its fast development.
starluz 2y ago
Too productive by absolute terms yes- they are producing a shit ton of copied low quality junk including their cars. Not productive in value terms
alephnerd 2y ago
> in which capital is more under state control than in private hands That statist description only started post-2016 after the market crash. From 1979-2015 Beijing was very hands off (excluding local level PLI subsidizes, but basically every country offers them - think Amazon HQ 2.0 back in the 2010s or Yozma in Israel back in the 1990s).

flumpcakes 2y ago

I think China is the workhouse and that's the source of it's power. Ultimately it's a dictatorship with imperial ambitions. It's blatantly using this power already to weaken democracies through IP theft and "overcapacity". It seems like some countries are becoming wary of China and are now moving production to other asian countries. I've seen a few interviews lately of Chinese workers complaining they are no longer employed because the 'west' has moved production abroad and how that's a very bad thing for the world. It seems like people are realising that China has weaponised capitalism. I guess people assumed they would be as benign as Japan in their industrialisation in the 60s-90s.

juxtapose 2y ago
It seems you are very ideology-driven, but no, corporations are not moving production out of China because "China bad". It's just because labor costs in China have risen due to its fast development.

starluz 2y ago

Too productive by absolute terms yes- they are producing a shit ton of copied low quality junk including their cars. Not productive in value terms

alephnerd 2y ago

> in which capital is more under state control than in private hands That statist description only started post-2016 after the market crash. From 1979-2015 Beijing was very hands off (excluding local level PLI subsidizes, but basically every country offers them - think Amazon HQ 2.0 back in the 2010s or Yozma in Israel back in the 1990s).