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> In SF you frequently hear big tech people talking how hard they work, while they queue 30mins for a coffee at Blue Bottle and chitchatting there for another 2

> In SF you frequently hear big tech people talking how hard they work, while they queue 30mins for a coffee at Blue Bottle and chitchatting there for another 20mins. God people still haven't figured out how knowledge work and work ethic there is illustrated when you are giving your brain to your employer instead of your body. Some of these workers are thinking about work problems literally 24 hours a day, and come up with solutions in their dreams, but because they aren't literally chained to their desk writing lines of code every single second they are observed they are lazy slackers. Can't stand this crap and it's just gonna get worse. Unless executives see you in pain, or are forced to sacrifice something you value like attending your kids piano recital they don't beleive you are dedicated enough to the cause like they are.

xp84 2y ago
I don't believe it's black and white. Sure, some workplaces are too demanding, but in other cases, people are taking advantage. My observations (in the USA) over the past few years suggest that most people who were hired around 2019-2021 when hiring technical staff was super difficult, have an absolutely bonkers level of entitlement. People are making 200k a year, and bristle at the implication that it's not acceptable for them to be completely absent (from their fully remote jobs) and unreachable all day without warning. None of the nearshore workers I've worked with exhibit this attitude -- it's only Americans, and only the engineers. They assume that the company wouldn't dare risk losing them by calling them out on this, and that if they did lose their job it's going to be trivial to get an equal or better one anyway, so why should they do anything that might cause any stress? Why should they have a sense of urgency? "I'll get on it when I get back from the beach, the waves are really good this morning." That's the work ethic. I'm not saying it's everyone, of course, but it's a common attitude. Oh, and all these people have incentive stock options, but don't seem to really believe they matter, so they are deeply disappointed with like a 4% raise, thinking a 10-20% annual raise makes sense. Overall the attitude isn't one of "i'm going to do everything I can to make us successful so my equity will make me rich" it's "I'm going to maximize my cash compensation and minimize my hours spent on work until it's not fun anymore, then on to the next." By the way, it is their right to act this way if they want, but I'm pretty sure the bottom 50% of US engineers (in terms of ambition) are going to find themselves replaced by nearshore talent that works harder than they do and doesn't even think hard work is an injustice.
- fullshark 2y ago
  Yes there are entitled children who will get a wake up call, a lot of people were openly rooting for a major recession in part because they WANTED that wakeup call to come very badly, not just executives but their co-workers who were driven crazy. I thought that was messed up but I get it, it seems unfair. They aren't doing their fair share, very common human emotion in social groups. But that sentence I highlighted just illustrates the thinking at the executive level (writer of this post is a CTO/Founder) and it drives me mad, and I believe the primary desire for in-office work. Creating a sustainable working environment where you deal with business problems is not the goal, the goal is to squeeze every ounce of labor you can for the money you pay and with no real idea how much work goes into the job, what's actually hard v. not, the only thing they can do is observe and bristle at stupid metrics like "how long is that coffee break."
- Muromec 2y ago
  >That's the work ethic. I'm not saying it's everyone, of course, but it's a common attitude So, why are those people not being fired? Because it sounds like they are judging their contribution to their employer and their own bargaining power exactly right if they are not being fired.

xp84 2y ago

I don't believe it's black and white. Sure, some workplaces are too demanding, but in other cases, people are taking advantage. My observations (in the USA) over the past few years suggest that most people who were hired around 2019-2021 when hiring technical staff was super difficult, have an absolutely bonkers level of entitlement. People are making 200k a year, and bristle at the implication that it's not acceptable for them to be completely absent (from their fully remote jobs) and unreachable all day without warning. None of the nearshore workers I've worked with exhibit this attitude -- it's only Americans, and only the engineers. They assume that the company wouldn't dare risk losing them by calling them out on this, and that if they did lose their job it's going to be trivial to get an equal or better one anyway, so why should they do anything that might cause any stress? Why should they have a sense of urgency? "I'll get on it when I get back from the beach, the waves are really good this morning." That's the work ethic. I'm not saying it's everyone, of course, but it's a common attitude. Oh, and all these people have incentive stock options, but don't seem to really believe they matter, so they are deeply disappointed with like a 4% raise, thinking a 10-20% annual raise makes sense. Overall the attitude isn't one of "i'm going to do everything I can to make us successful so my equity will make me rich" it's "I'm going to maximize my cash compensation and minimize my hours spent on work until it's not fun anymore, then on to the next." By the way, it is their right to act this way if they want, but I'm pretty sure the bottom 50% of US engineers (in terms of ambition) are going to find themselves replaced by nearshore talent that works harder than they do and doesn't even think hard work is an injustice.

fullshark 2y ago
Yes there are entitled children who will get a wake up call, a lot of people were openly rooting for a major recession in part because they WANTED that wakeup call to come very badly, not just executives but their co-workers who were driven crazy. I thought that was messed up but I get it, it seems unfair. They aren't doing their fair share, very common human emotion in social groups. But that sentence I highlighted just illustrates the thinking at the executive level (writer of this post is a CTO/Founder) and it drives me mad, and I believe the primary desire for in-office work. Creating a sustainable working environment where you deal with business problems is not the goal, the goal is to squeeze every ounce of labor you can for the money you pay and with no real idea how much work goes into the job, what's actually hard v. not, the only thing they can do is observe and bristle at stupid metrics like "how long is that coffee break."
Muromec 2y ago
>That's the work ethic. I'm not saying it's everyone, of course, but it's a common attitude So, why are those people not being fired? Because it sounds like they are judging their contribution to their employer and their own bargaining power exactly right if they are not being fired.