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>> It’s a bit like a man not realizing he might be a great dancer, simply because most dancers are women, and so he never explores the question. No offense but

>> It’s a bit like a man not realizing he might be a great dancer, simply because most dancers are women, and so he never explores the question. No offense but that stereotype is incomprehensible. Outside of gay and lesbian clubs, [roughly} half of all dancers are men and the other half women. I suspect you are specifically talking about ballet dancers, but those are a tiny minority, and don't even exist in most of the world. Here's a really cool dude dancing a really cool dance for men (Zaouli, from Cote d' Ivoire): https://youtu.be/jZ572yLH9sc?si=xH4tOaqlfrGYQJiw https://youtu.be/jZ572yLH9sc?si=xH4tOaqlfrGYQJiw

petsfed 3y ago
In the States "dancer" is used colloqiually to describe a profession, not simply a person engaged in the act of dancing. It's that "...most dancers are women..." bit that indicates that that's the context in which the parent is speaking. Certainly, that subtext is a little unclear, but if I talked about "dancers" at a wedding, I believe most people would expect that I was describing people dancing professionally. If I instead talked about "people dancing" at a wedding, its more likely I'm talking about people dancing for fun. There's room for "dancer" to mean "person who is actively dancing", e.g. "Jim is a great dancer, but I am not". But I've never heard someone say "I'm a dancer" to simply mean "I dance [at all]". Its technically correct to say "I'm not a dancer", but most people say "I don't/can't dance". In the States, you'll find that the gender ratio in the average dance class (ballet, tap, jazz, hiphop, etc) is strongly skewed toward girls and women. You see similar ratios in college dance degree programs. If you pursue professional training to dance, odds are you're a woman.
- YeGoblynQueenne 3y ago
  Thanks for the analysis. I hope the next time someone writes "dancer" and means "professional dancer", they think for a second and write "professional dancer" instead. Btw: >> If you pursue professional training to dance, odds are you're a woman. You mean in the US. Reference, please?
  - petsfed 3y ago
    You mean aside from the anecdotal evidence from 35 years of being the son of a professional dance costumer (ballet, jazz, modern, and classical), and brother of another professional ballet costumer (ballet, jazz, modern, and classical)? And both have worked with a variety of very large and notable dance companies across the western US? Or about 17 years now observing the gender imbalance in dance schools that my sisters (and now daughters) attend. Or the entire fucking genre of media that clearly shows that gender imbalance (seriously, Billy Elliot's central conflict only makes sense in light of this very real and very sustained phenomenon)? Ok. https://datausa.io/profile/soc/dancers-choreographers#gender-and-age https://datausa.io/profile/soc/dancers-choreographers#gender... There's a subsection about educational levels of professional dancers, and the gender imbalance is persistent between high-school educated (so only private dance instruction) as well as college-educated professional dancers. I found similar statistics in Australia.
    - YeGoblynQueenne 3y ago
      >> You mean aside from the anecdotal evidence from 35 years of being the son of a professional dance costumer (ballet, jazz, modern, and classical), and brother of another professional ballet costumer (ballet, jazz, modern, and classical)? And both have worked with a variety of very large and notable dance companies across the western US? Or about 17 years now observing the gender imbalance in dance schools that my sisters (and now daughters) attend. Or the entire fucking genre of media that clearly shows that gender imbalance (seriously, Billy Elliot's central conflict only makes sense in light of this very real and very sustained phenomenon)? You don't have to be so stand-offish, I don't know who you are and who are your relatives, and I just asked if you had a reference. Like, has someone done a study on this? Is there data or just hear-say? Was my initial comment really so obnoxious, or do you think it impossible I really didn't know what I asked about? Not everyone here is from the US, or from Anglophone cultures- I'm Greek and a lot of the gender-based nuances that are obvious to the Anglosphere are completely alien to me. To give you an example, you know the riddle about the man and his son who are in an accident and the son who survives is wheeled into the ER where the surgeon says "I can't operate on him, it's my son". Well, I had to have that one explained to me because I didn't get it. I didn't get why it was a riddle. Half of the doctors I've met in my life were women. On the other hand, every time I see Rishi Sunak visiting a car factory or something like that and he's standing next to a girl in a hard hat and overalls, well, that does strike me as weird; but not the locals (I live in the UK). These kinds of things are really not as identically distributed throughout the world as people tend to think. So please try not to instantly presume bad faith, alright?

petsfed 3y ago

In the States "dancer" is used colloqiually to describe a profession, not simply a person engaged in the act of dancing. It's that "...most dancers are women..." bit that indicates that that's the context in which the parent is speaking. Certainly, that subtext is a little unclear, but if I talked about "dancers" at a wedding, I believe most people would expect that I was describing people dancing professionally. If I instead talked about "people dancing" at a wedding, its more likely I'm talking about people dancing for fun. There's room for "dancer" to mean "person who is actively dancing", e.g. "Jim is a great dancer, but I am not". But I've never heard someone say "I'm a dancer" to simply mean "I dance [at all]". Its technically correct to say "I'm not a dancer", but most people say "I don't/can't dance". In the States, you'll find that the gender ratio in the average dance class (ballet, tap, jazz, hiphop, etc) is strongly skewed toward girls and women. You see similar ratios in college dance degree programs. If you pursue professional training to dance, odds are you're a woman.

YeGoblynQueenne 3y ago
Thanks for the analysis. I hope the next time someone writes "dancer" and means "professional dancer", they think for a second and write "professional dancer" instead. Btw: >> If you pursue professional training to dance, odds are you're a woman. You mean in the US. Reference, please?
- petsfed 3y ago
  You mean aside from the anecdotal evidence from 35 years of being the son of a professional dance costumer (ballet, jazz, modern, and classical), and brother of another professional ballet costumer (ballet, jazz, modern, and classical)? And both have worked with a variety of very large and notable dance companies across the western US? Or about 17 years now observing the gender imbalance in dance schools that my sisters (and now daughters) attend. Or the entire fucking genre of media that clearly shows that gender imbalance (seriously, Billy Elliot's central conflict only makes sense in light of this very real and very sustained phenomenon)? Ok. https://datausa.io/profile/soc/dancers-choreographers#gender-and-age https://datausa.io/profile/soc/dancers-choreographers#gender... There's a subsection about educational levels of professional dancers, and the gender imbalance is persistent between high-school educated (so only private dance instruction) as well as college-educated professional dancers. I found similar statistics in Australia.
  - YeGoblynQueenne 3y ago
    >> You mean aside from the anecdotal evidence from 35 years of being the son of a professional dance costumer (ballet, jazz, modern, and classical), and brother of another professional ballet costumer (ballet, jazz, modern, and classical)? And both have worked with a variety of very large and notable dance companies across the western US? Or about 17 years now observing the gender imbalance in dance schools that my sisters (and now daughters) attend. Or the entire fucking genre of media that clearly shows that gender imbalance (seriously, Billy Elliot's central conflict only makes sense in light of this very real and very sustained phenomenon)? You don't have to be so stand-offish, I don't know who you are and who are your relatives, and I just asked if you had a reference. Like, has someone done a study on this? Is there data or just hear-say? Was my initial comment really so obnoxious, or do you think it impossible I really didn't know what I asked about? Not everyone here is from the US, or from Anglophone cultures- I'm Greek and a lot of the gender-based nuances that are obvious to the Anglosphere are completely alien to me. To give you an example, you know the riddle about the man and his son who are in an accident and the son who survives is wheeled into the ER where the surgeon says "I can't operate on him, it's my son". Well, I had to have that one explained to me because I didn't get it. I didn't get why it was a riddle. Half of the doctors I've met in my life were women. On the other hand, every time I see Rishi Sunak visiting a car factory or something like that and he's standing next to a girl in a hard hat and overalls, well, that does strike me as weird; but not the locals (I live in the UK). These kinds of things are really not as identically distributed throughout the world as people tend to think. So please try not to instantly presume bad faith, alright?