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GP did not "jump to conspiracy theories." They asked a reasonable question. I would agree that it doesn't pass Occam's Razor, but there has been plenty of tal

GP did not "jump to conspiracy theories." They asked a reasonable question. I would agree that it doesn't pass Occam's Razor, but there has been plenty of talk from US gov about concerns over China passing the US, and with ARM specifically. There was even an article about it on HN not too long ago. Furthermore the US gov has been putting a ton of pressure on big tech companies to get them to do things without formal laws or regulation. I hate when people jump to conspiracy theories with a passion, but I'm also beginning to hate when people overly dismiss reasonable theories as "conspiracy theories." It's important that we don't expand the definition of conspiracy theory to a meaningless height. This is what happened with the "Lab Leak" theory of Covid, which only served to "prove" the conspiracy theorists right and was and has been a major setback for people who want to call out conspiracy theories for what they are. If we expand the definition to include theories that are reasonable, then "conspiracy theory" ceases to be meaningful and we now lack a word that we really need, considering humans are prone to conspiracy thinking and it needs to be called out when it happens.

acdha 3y ago
They did jump to a conspiracy theory: there’s no evidence that Google’s stated reason is hiding an ulterior motive, and as a way to hinder China it’d have very little impact since Chinese companies aren’t dependent on it. This is not the place to relitigate the lab leak mess but I will note that the conspiracy theorists were continually in a state of wrongness. They contributed nothing but noise because they were starting with the conclusion and confabulating as needed to support it. You can and should expect people to back claims up with logic and evidence.
- justinclift 3y ago
  > as a way to hinder China it’d have very little impact since Chinese companies aren’t dependent on it Have you missed the whole "China developing RISC-V as an alternative path forward" thing then?
  - acdha 3y ago
    Not all, it just doesn’t work as a conspiracy theory. China is currently using x86, ARM, MIPS (Loong arch) at scale. If RISC-V makes sense for them, they can use it with Linux now. Now, think about what happens if the hypothetical men in black manage to keep Google from supporting it. China has an enormous tech sector, so if it’s economically viable to use RISC-V for phones or tablets they can pay a couple of developers to support RISC-V in an Android fork, which is going to be popular if RISC-V is working for anyone else in the world, and their domestic market alone is large enough to support it. If that doesn’t make sense, they’ll continue using the same ARM devices they’re currently using because the men in black can’t tell anyone to stop using that platform. Given how many US companies are looking into RISC-V, it’s also hard to see a ban being sustainable. If RISC-V starts to become competitive, American companies are not going to tolerate being shut out. If it doesn’t, being shut out won’t harm China.
    - freedomben 3y ago
      You calling them "men in black" doesn't make this more of a conspiracy, it just makes you look silly. Call them "US Senators"[1] or "US lawmakers"[2]. It's a lot more descriptive, though admittedly it does make your assertion that this is a "conspiracy theory" sound pretty weak... Also, you saying that China could reimplement RISC-V support in Android is a completely different discussion. That's a discussion about how effective the US government actions would be, not whether they were doing anything (which you want to call a conspiracy theory despite there being plenty of evidence that this is happening). You might find this article[3] and this discussion of it [4] interesting, or you might just think the entire thread is full of conspiracy theorists. At a certain point though, the person calling people "conspiracy theorists" actually becomes the conspiracy theorist. It's not about rhetorical tricks like saying "men in black", it's about evidence. [1] https://www.reuters.com/technology/us-china-tech-war-risc-v-chip-technology-emerges-new-battleground-2023-10-06/ https://www.reuters.com/technology/us-china-tech-war-risc-v-... [2] https://www.reuters.com/technology/us-lawmakers-press-biden-plans-chinese-use-open-chip-technology-2023-11-02/ https://www.reuters.com/technology/us-lawmakers-press-biden-... [3] https://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/2023/regarding-proposed-us-restrictions-on-risc-v/ https://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/2023/regarding-proposed-u... [4] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38163412 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38163412

acdha 3y ago

They did jump to a conspiracy theory: there’s no evidence that Google’s stated reason is hiding an ulterior motive, and as a way to hinder China it’d have very little impact since Chinese companies aren’t dependent on it. This is not the place to relitigate the lab leak mess but I will note that the conspiracy theorists were continually in a state of wrongness. They contributed nothing but noise because they were starting with the conclusion and confabulating as needed to support it. You can and should expect people to back claims up with logic and evidence.

justinclift 3y ago
> as a way to hinder China it’d have very little impact since Chinese companies aren’t dependent on it Have you missed the whole "China developing RISC-V as an alternative path forward" thing then?
- acdha 3y ago
  Not all, it just doesn’t work as a conspiracy theory. China is currently using x86, ARM, MIPS (Loong arch) at scale. If RISC-V makes sense for them, they can use it with Linux now. Now, think about what happens if the hypothetical men in black manage to keep Google from supporting it. China has an enormous tech sector, so if it’s economically viable to use RISC-V for phones or tablets they can pay a couple of developers to support RISC-V in an Android fork, which is going to be popular if RISC-V is working for anyone else in the world, and their domestic market alone is large enough to support it. If that doesn’t make sense, they’ll continue using the same ARM devices they’re currently using because the men in black can’t tell anyone to stop using that platform. Given how many US companies are looking into RISC-V, it’s also hard to see a ban being sustainable. If RISC-V starts to become competitive, American companies are not going to tolerate being shut out. If it doesn’t, being shut out won’t harm China.
  - freedomben 3y ago
    You calling them "men in black" doesn't make this more of a conspiracy, it just makes you look silly. Call them "US Senators"[1] or "US lawmakers"[2]. It's a lot more descriptive, though admittedly it does make your assertion that this is a "conspiracy theory" sound pretty weak... Also, you saying that China could reimplement RISC-V support in Android is a completely different discussion. That's a discussion about how effective the US government actions would be, not whether they were doing anything (which you want to call a conspiracy theory despite there being plenty of evidence that this is happening). You might find this article[3] and this discussion of it [4] interesting, or you might just think the entire thread is full of conspiracy theorists. At a certain point though, the person calling people "conspiracy theorists" actually becomes the conspiracy theorist. It's not about rhetorical tricks like saying "men in black", it's about evidence. [1] https://www.reuters.com/technology/us-china-tech-war-risc-v-chip-technology-emerges-new-battleground-2023-10-06/ https://www.reuters.com/technology/us-china-tech-war-risc-v-... [2] https://www.reuters.com/technology/us-lawmakers-press-biden-plans-chinese-use-open-chip-technology-2023-11-02/ https://www.reuters.com/technology/us-lawmakers-press-biden-... [3] https://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/2023/regarding-proposed-us-restrictions-on-risc-v/ https://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/2023/regarding-proposed-u... [4] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38163412 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38163412