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> Because the population was nearly 100% Arab. When? Jews started coming back to Israel in the 19th century. That land was occupied by empires since the Jews

> Because the population was nearly 100% Arab. When? Jews started coming back to Israel in the 19th century. That land was occupied by empires since the Jews were outcasts. Everyone who came there was a vagrant following the Ottoman empire. That doesn't make their land "theirs" anymore than it is ours. > Israelis are not barred from entry. I know of only one individual Israeli who has been barred from entering the Columbia main campus, and that's because he has more than 50 harassment claims against him, and because he tried to lead a counterprotest directly into a protest. The administration told him to hold the counterprotest at a nearby location, so as not to create a direct physical confrontation. E.g. Shai Davidai. He's a professor and was followed by quite a few people so they were all barred from entering. He specifically supports a two state solution, so what would he have to counter protest? Then there's all the Israeli students who were physically attacked? Including most ironically Yosef Hadad who's a Palestinian Israeli and was physically assaulted at Colombia.

DiogenesKynikos 2y ago
> When? For many hundreds of years, until the British Empire took over and began supporting Zionist colonization of Palestine. The British denied the native population, which was almost 100% Arab, the right to determine what would happen with the land they lived on. Instead, Britain promised Palestine to an outside group. > E.g. Shai Davidai. He's the only person who's been banned from campus, for the reasons I stated before: he has been harassing and doxxing students, and he tried to lead a counter-protest directly into the protest. Saying that Jewish students in general are banned from campus because one specific harasser has been banned is not accurate. > Then there's all the Israeli students who were physically attacked? "All the Israeli students"? There haven't been any physical attacks on Israeli students at Columbia. Yosef Hadad isn't a student. He's a professional pro-Israel campaigner who went to campus, started yelling in the faces of protesters, and then got shoved by one of them. On the other hand, there have been plenty of assaults on pro-Palestinian students. A group of former IDF members on campus sprayed a bunch of pro-Palestinian protesters with a noxious chemical, sending them to the hospital. The university administration didn't care.
- tptacek 2y ago
  The British and French and Europe generally denied the entire world self-determination in that time period: literally every state surrounding Israel is the product of Sykes-Picot, just as one instance. Horrible ethnic violence and subjugation has been in endemic in all of those states. Israeli Jewish people, who are themselves plurality MENA people (contrary to the popular narrative that they're all displaced Europeans), correctly notice that they're the only ones whose residency is invalidated by appeals to the British. None of this is to say that Israel's treatment of Gaza is defensible; rather, just to point out that you don't have to pick at the history of the region to make your case, especially because doing so isn't going to help you make that case.
  - DiogenesKynikos 2y ago
    I don't know of any other case in modern times in which the British or French promised a country to people who didn't even live there. British colonial administrators themselves quickly came to realize the insanity of what they were doing. The Balfour Declaration was basically a declaration of war against the population they were ruling over in Palestine, a population whose interests they were nominally supposed to rule in. Lord Curzon, who was the only British cabinet minister with expertise in the Middle East, warned about this before the Balfour Declaration was issued. > Israeli Jewish people, who are themselves plurality MENA people (contrary to the popular narrative that they're all displaced Europeans) Israel was founded pretty much solely by European Jews. Arab Jews emigrated to Israel years after it was founded, because the expulsion of the Palestinians and the Arab-Israeli conflict unleashed a wave of antisemitism across the Arab world.
- invalidname 2y ago
  > For many hundreds of years Oldest Palestinian dynasties are from around 18th century. Notice that calling them Palestinian is a stretch since they rarely had a unified identity as a people. Jews started coming back to Israel en-mass in the 19th century, well before the British arrived. They bought land and at its peek owned a significant amount of land privately. > which was almost 100% Arab This is very false. If it was true Israel would have lost its independence war in which not only the Palestinians but also the surrounding countries attacked. Furthermore, notice that those Arab countries didn't give the Palestinians a country despite holding the west bank and Gaza. Neither did the Muslim Ottoman empire. > > E.g. Shai Davidai. > > He's the only person who's been banned from campus Many were locked out. Many spoke of fear to come to classes. Half the people in the encampment in NY weren't even students there. Professional agitators from outside the campus were guiding the students on maximizing their impact. E.g. https://nypost.com/2024/05/01/us-news/professional-protester-lisa-fithians-past-ties-to-anti-israel-work/ https://nypost.com/2024/05/01/us-news/professional-protester... Here's a professor talking about violence and intimidation towards Jews on campus: https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/policy/education/2988097/ucla-professor-blasts-anti-israel-protesters-as-police-start-clean-encampment-never-peaceful/ https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/policy/education/2988097/... There are quite a lot of these testimonials but they don't appear as prominently in the US media as they do on Israeli media where people feel more comfortable to speak out. There's claims that "Students for Justice for Palestine" are really cover organizations for terrorists just like BDS. There's a lawsuit of Oct 7th victims aimed to unmask them. > Yosef Hadad isn't a student. He's a professional pro-Israel campaigner who went to campus, started yelling in the faces of protesters, and then got shoved by one of them. So that's OK? He's a Muslim who came to help break people out of their distorted reactionary mold and got attacked. > On the other hand, there have been plenty of assaults on pro-Palestinian students. See how that starts? See why these things are useless. Everyone plays the victim here. Palestinians have been playing the victim for a century. It made some sense in the past. But hasn't made any sense since the 90's. Right now they need to grow up and settle. Hamas is keeping a redundant conflict going because it refuses to accept the right of Israel to exist. It's delusional and you're part of the reason it keeps going.

DiogenesKynikos 2y ago

> When? For many hundreds of years, until the British Empire took over and began supporting Zionist colonization of Palestine. The British denied the native population, which was almost 100% Arab, the right to determine what would happen with the land they lived on. Instead, Britain promised Palestine to an outside group. > E.g. Shai Davidai. He's the only person who's been banned from campus, for the reasons I stated before: he has been harassing and doxxing students, and he tried to lead a counter-protest directly into the protest. Saying that Jewish students in general are banned from campus because one specific harasser has been banned is not accurate. > Then there's all the Israeli students who were physically attacked? "All the Israeli students"? There haven't been any physical attacks on Israeli students at Columbia. Yosef Hadad isn't a student. He's a professional pro-Israel campaigner who went to campus, started yelling in the faces of protesters, and then got shoved by one of them. On the other hand, there have been plenty of assaults on pro-Palestinian students. A group of former IDF members on campus sprayed a bunch of pro-Palestinian protesters with a noxious chemical, sending them to the hospital. The university administration didn't care.

tptacek 2y ago
The British and French and Europe generally denied the entire world self-determination in that time period: literally every state surrounding Israel is the product of Sykes-Picot, just as one instance. Horrible ethnic violence and subjugation has been in endemic in all of those states. Israeli Jewish people, who are themselves plurality MENA people (contrary to the popular narrative that they're all displaced Europeans), correctly notice that they're the only ones whose residency is invalidated by appeals to the British. None of this is to say that Israel's treatment of Gaza is defensible; rather, just to point out that you don't have to pick at the history of the region to make your case, especially because doing so isn't going to help you make that case.
- DiogenesKynikos 2y ago
  I don't know of any other case in modern times in which the British or French promised a country to people who didn't even live there. British colonial administrators themselves quickly came to realize the insanity of what they were doing. The Balfour Declaration was basically a declaration of war against the population they were ruling over in Palestine, a population whose interests they were nominally supposed to rule in. Lord Curzon, who was the only British cabinet minister with expertise in the Middle East, warned about this before the Balfour Declaration was issued. > Israeli Jewish people, who are themselves plurality MENA people (contrary to the popular narrative that they're all displaced Europeans) Israel was founded pretty much solely by European Jews. Arab Jews emigrated to Israel years after it was founded, because the expulsion of the Palestinians and the Arab-Israeli conflict unleashed a wave of antisemitism across the Arab world.
invalidname 2y ago
> For many hundreds of years Oldest Palestinian dynasties are from around 18th century. Notice that calling them Palestinian is a stretch since they rarely had a unified identity as a people. Jews started coming back to Israel en-mass in the 19th century, well before the British arrived. They bought land and at its peek owned a significant amount of land privately. > which was almost 100% Arab This is very false. If it was true Israel would have lost its independence war in which not only the Palestinians but also the surrounding countries attacked. Furthermore, notice that those Arab countries didn't give the Palestinians a country despite holding the west bank and Gaza. Neither did the Muslim Ottoman empire. > > E.g. Shai Davidai. > > He's the only person who's been banned from campus Many were locked out. Many spoke of fear to come to classes. Half the people in the encampment in NY weren't even students there. Professional agitators from outside the campus were guiding the students on maximizing their impact. E.g. https://nypost.com/2024/05/01/us-news/professional-protester-lisa-fithians-past-ties-to-anti-israel-work/ https://nypost.com/2024/05/01/us-news/professional-protester... Here's a professor talking about violence and intimidation towards Jews on campus: https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/policy/education/2988097/ucla-professor-blasts-anti-israel-protesters-as-police-start-clean-encampment-never-peaceful/ https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/policy/education/2988097/... There are quite a lot of these testimonials but they don't appear as prominently in the US media as they do on Israeli media where people feel more comfortable to speak out. There's claims that "Students for Justice for Palestine" are really cover organizations for terrorists just like BDS. There's a lawsuit of Oct 7th victims aimed to unmask them. > Yosef Hadad isn't a student. He's a professional pro-Israel campaigner who went to campus, started yelling in the faces of protesters, and then got shoved by one of them. So that's OK? He's a Muslim who came to help break people out of their distorted reactionary mold and got attacked. > On the other hand, there have been plenty of assaults on pro-Palestinian students. See how that starts? See why these things are useless. Everyone plays the victim here. Palestinians have been playing the victim for a century. It made some sense in the past. But hasn't made any sense since the 90's. Right now they need to grow up and settle. Hamas is keeping a redundant conflict going because it refuses to accept the right of Israel to exist. It's delusional and you're part of the reason it keeps going.