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Agree 100%. The change in Musk’s public persona combined with his more recent business decisions are alarming. And you may say that his public persona shouldn’t

Agree 100%. The change in Musk’s public persona combined with his more recent business decisions are alarming. And you may say that his public persona shouldn’t matter, but when he willfully alienates a large portion of his traditional customer base, one wonders what he is even thinking.

pfannkuchen 2y ago
This might ironically be the downside of being less money driven and more principle driven. I think he legitimately thinks “the woke mind virus” is a bigger short term threat to (western) civilization than failing to transition to sustainable energy (Tesla) or failing to become a multi planetary species (SpaceX). If he was primarily financially driven I think he would have kept quiet and just focused on the existing companies, like most people probably would even if they privately held similarly controversial opinions. I’m not saying he is correct by the way, just that it seems like he thinks that and it basically explains his behavior.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- lenerdenator 2y ago
  The thing is, he’s never been paid to stay quiet and focus on the money. Musk’s value add is as the celebrity CEO; the Jobsian ideal taken to its natural conclusion. He’s supposed to be this forward-looking visionary and having him at the helm of your company is supposed to make it forward-looking by proxy. This is all well and good until the celebrity CEO fries his brain with Special K and builds a bubble of yes-men around him. Then it becomes a massive liability.
- vundercind 2y ago
  A lot of it’s explained by drugs, incredible impulsivity, some magical thinking, and remarkably thin skin, plus (I think the rest are in plain evidence—this gets speculative) maybe some discontent over his personal life and especially his kids.
- sumeruchat 2y ago
  [flagged]
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
spacemadness 2y ago
Tell that to the share holders who keep rewarding him even on a huge earnings miss.
- nostrademons 2y ago
  TSLA down > 50% from the peak. The stock went up on earnings miss because things were not as bad as shareholders were expecting, but the shareholders are expecting things to be pretty bad.
  - yowzadave 2y ago
    But I think the point people have made (correctly!) is that TSLA's price is detached from any normal way we have for pricing a car company. Their market cap is 160% that of Toyota, despite selling 16% as many cars. How are they ever going to justify their current valuation? Kicking Elon out to get rational CEO behavior could result in a rational market assessment of Tesla's value, which would be bad from the shareholders' perspective!
    - lesuorac 2y ago
      Toyota issues bonds (ex. [1]) so their valuation should be less than the multiple on cars sold as tesla. [1]: https://cbonds.com/bonds/1504323/ https://cbonds.com/bonds/1504323/
- gomox 2y ago
  The only thing separating Tesla from a realistic multiple is Musk. For shareholders it's rational to want to keep him around. Otherwise they would have to face a much worse reversion to the mean.
- Terr_ 2y ago
  Hmmm... Usually the fable of the Emperor's New Clothes implies the people around him went along with the fiction because they feared personal retribution from the Emperor... But what if nobles did it to prevent a drop in the "stock" of the empire itself?
- 2y ago
citizen_friend 2y ago
[flagged]
- sanderjd 2y ago
  To me, this just doesn't seem factual. I became an admirer of his in the 2010s. I don't believe he was spending so much time back then picking petty fights and saying unhinged or just extremely politically polarized things on social media in that time period, which the media was just covering differently than they are now. I think his public behavior has changed notably, not just the reporting on him.
  - Avshalom 2y ago
    On one hand, he has definitely become more unhinged as time has gone on. Some combination of stress, drug abuse and social-media-audience-capture. At the same time tho: remember https://www.tesla.com/blog/most-peculiar-test-drive https://www.tesla.com/blog/most-peculiar-test-drive if the media reaction to that had been "tesla ceo pulls private driving detail in attempt to discredit journalist" it would have formed a much more obvious through-line with the Top Gear "tesla ceo pulls battery telemetry to sue comedy show" from years prior and "tesla employees can watch you have sex in your car" from years later. See Also the ongoing excuse of "autopilot was not engaged when the crash happened" or Tesla's insurance charging more if you drive at night. https://electrek.co/2023/09/15/musk-wanted-to-use-tesla-cameras-to-spy-on-drivers-and-win-autopilot-lawsuits/ https://electrek.co/2023/09/15/musk-wanted-to-use-tesla-came... Things add up to: Elon Musk does not believe in any sort of right to your privacy. Like in general while his public persona has gotten less reasonable over the years there's a lot of things that could/should be reported as "patterns of behavior" that, in the early days got reported as if they happened in a vacuum which let it seem reasonable at the time.
    - sanderjd 2y ago
      I think two things are true, both that his behavior has really changed significantly, and that the media has been increasingly less friendly to his eccentric behavior. But I think it's the first of those true things that has impacted peoples' perceptions of him far more than the second.
psunavy03 2y ago
I've honestly wondered whether or not he's going to end up as this generation's Howard Hughes. Makes fortune in other industry, parlays that into becoming a manufacturing/aerospace titan, slowly goes insane. He's 2 or 2.5 for 3 depending on how you count.
- LightBug1 2y ago
  Started thinking that years ago ... and have always made the link, in my mind, between the Starship and the Spruce Goose ...
  - psunavy03 2y ago
    To be fair, Starship has gotten further than the Spruce Goose ever did.
    - LightBug1 2y ago
      I kind of agree - but relatively speaking they're at about the same place right now.
  - two_handfuls 2y ago
    Maybe robotaxis will be the Spruce Goose.
  - _Tev 2y ago
    Starlink (v2 sats in particular) alone justifies Starship. Include HLS and potential Mars stuff and the comparison does not make sense. Don't listen to people who hate on SpaceX because of Musk. If you want to hate on him pick any AI-related thing, much easier target.

pfannkuchen 2y ago

This might ironically be the downside of being less money driven and more principle driven. I think he legitimately thinks “the woke mind virus” is a bigger short term threat to (western) civilization than failing to transition to sustainable energy (Tesla) or failing to become a multi planetary species (SpaceX). If he was primarily financially driven I think he would have kept quiet and just focused on the existing companies, like most people probably would even if they privately held similarly controversial opinions. I’m not saying he is correct by the way, just that it seems like he thinks that and it basically explains his behavior.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
lenerdenator 2y ago
The thing is, he’s never been paid to stay quiet and focus on the money. Musk’s value add is as the celebrity CEO; the Jobsian ideal taken to its natural conclusion. He’s supposed to be this forward-looking visionary and having him at the helm of your company is supposed to make it forward-looking by proxy. This is all well and good until the celebrity CEO fries his brain with Special K and builds a bubble of yes-men around him. Then it becomes a massive liability.
vundercind 2y ago
A lot of it’s explained by drugs, incredible impulsivity, some magical thinking, and remarkably thin skin, plus (I think the rest are in plain evidence—this gets speculative) maybe some discontent over his personal life and especially his kids.
sumeruchat 2y ago
[flagged]
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

spacemadness 2y ago

Tell that to the share holders who keep rewarding him even on a huge earnings miss.

nostrademons 2y ago
TSLA down > 50% from the peak. The stock went up on earnings miss because things were not as bad as shareholders were expecting, but the shareholders are expecting things to be pretty bad.
- yowzadave 2y ago
  But I think the point people have made (correctly!) is that TSLA's price is detached from any normal way we have for pricing a car company. Their market cap is 160% that of Toyota, despite selling 16% as many cars. How are they ever going to justify their current valuation? Kicking Elon out to get rational CEO behavior could result in a rational market assessment of Tesla's value, which would be bad from the shareholders' perspective!
  - lesuorac 2y ago
    Toyota issues bonds (ex. [1]) so their valuation should be less than the multiple on cars sold as tesla. [1]: https://cbonds.com/bonds/1504323/ https://cbonds.com/bonds/1504323/
gomox 2y ago
The only thing separating Tesla from a realistic multiple is Musk. For shareholders it's rational to want to keep him around. Otherwise they would have to face a much worse reversion to the mean.
Terr_ 2y ago
Hmmm... Usually the fable of the Emperor's New Clothes implies the people around him went along with the fiction because they feared personal retribution from the Emperor... But what if nobles did it to prevent a drop in the "stock" of the empire itself?
2y ago

citizen_friend 2y ago

[flagged]

sanderjd 2y ago
To me, this just doesn't seem factual. I became an admirer of his in the 2010s. I don't believe he was spending so much time back then picking petty fights and saying unhinged or just extremely politically polarized things on social media in that time period, which the media was just covering differently than they are now. I think his public behavior has changed notably, not just the reporting on him.
- Avshalom 2y ago
  On one hand, he has definitely become more unhinged as time has gone on. Some combination of stress, drug abuse and social-media-audience-capture. At the same time tho: remember https://www.tesla.com/blog/most-peculiar-test-drive https://www.tesla.com/blog/most-peculiar-test-drive if the media reaction to that had been "tesla ceo pulls private driving detail in attempt to discredit journalist" it would have formed a much more obvious through-line with the Top Gear "tesla ceo pulls battery telemetry to sue comedy show" from years prior and "tesla employees can watch you have sex in your car" from years later. See Also the ongoing excuse of "autopilot was not engaged when the crash happened" or Tesla's insurance charging more if you drive at night. https://electrek.co/2023/09/15/musk-wanted-to-use-tesla-cameras-to-spy-on-drivers-and-win-autopilot-lawsuits/ https://electrek.co/2023/09/15/musk-wanted-to-use-tesla-came... Things add up to: Elon Musk does not believe in any sort of right to your privacy. Like in general while his public persona has gotten less reasonable over the years there's a lot of things that could/should be reported as "patterns of behavior" that, in the early days got reported as if they happened in a vacuum which let it seem reasonable at the time.
  - sanderjd 2y ago
    I think two things are true, both that his behavior has really changed significantly, and that the media has been increasingly less friendly to his eccentric behavior. But I think it's the first of those true things that has impacted peoples' perceptions of him far more than the second.

psunavy03 2y ago

I've honestly wondered whether or not he's going to end up as this generation's Howard Hughes. Makes fortune in other industry, parlays that into becoming a manufacturing/aerospace titan, slowly goes insane. He's 2 or 2.5 for 3 depending on how you count.

LightBug1 2y ago
Started thinking that years ago ... and have always made the link, in my mind, between the Starship and the Spruce Goose ...
- psunavy03 2y ago
  To be fair, Starship has gotten further than the Spruce Goose ever did.
  - LightBug1 2y ago
    I kind of agree - but relatively speaking they're at about the same place right now.
- two_handfuls 2y ago
  Maybe robotaxis will be the Spruce Goose.
- _Tev 2y ago
  Starlink (v2 sats in particular) alone justifies Starship. Include HLS and potential Mars stuff and the comparison does not make sense. Don't listen to people who hate on SpaceX because of Musk. If you want to hate on him pick any AI-related thing, much easier target.