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This is what the Brexit contras were warning for. The UK will still have to follow EU law, because they want to sell stuff in the EU. They just lost their voi

This is what the Brexit contras were warning for. The UK will still have to follow EU law, because they want to sell stuff in the EU. They just lost their voice in the process to write law

switch007 2y ago
It was 95%* about immigration so none of those arguments mattered * number pulled from my behind. But it was surely very high
- immibis 2y ago
  It was about brown people. Always is. They aren't bothered by white immigrants.
  - irjoe 2y ago
    I'm not sure that's entirely true in the UK. The Polish plumber taking British jobs is a fairly common trope in far-right discourse. I believe this is prevalent across Western Europe in general.
    - switch007 2y ago
      How I long for a Polish plumber. Hard workers, better skilled, better value.
    - maccard 2y ago
      I think that was true 10 years ago, but now it seems to have evened off a bit. Generally speaking (in my circles and the circles I see around me with family etc) there’s an acceptance of the “polish plumber” as a hard working person getting by these days.
      - immibis 2y ago
        This happens to each race in turn. First they're brown people coming to steal our jobs, then they're hard workers and some other race is stealing our jobs, then they're white or white-equivalent.
        short_sells_poo 2y ago
        It's likely down to the fact that once the proverbial Polish Plumbers left, a lot of people realized that there's nobody here who actually wants to do that work, no matter the price. So we have no nurses, we have no truck drivers, we have no electricians. And the list goes on. And it's impossible to import these people anymore, because a) the wages in the UK are low - lower than in most of the EU and much lower than in the US, and b) many of these professions are not really classified as high skill, even if they take a lot of practice.
    - jkaplowitz 2y ago
      I’m not convinced that the adherents of the UK and Western European far-right count Polish people as white, despite the typical Polish skin color. This is like how Italian and Irish people were often not considered white in the late 19th and early 20th century in the US, and probably in the UK too although I’m less familiar with that.
      - zarzavat 2y ago
        English people are generally not racist like Americans and don’t perceive the world in terms of a set of racial divisions. We are Island xenophobes, like Japanese people. There is us and then there is everybody else. Western Europeans get a pass because they are rich.
      - graemep 2y ago
        British culture is very different from US with regard to race. It took me a long time to understand what the difference was. In fact every culture I know (directly or am informed about) is different form the others. I wrote a blog post about this: https://pietersz.co.uk/2023/08/racism-culture-different https://pietersz.co.uk/2023/08/racism-culture-different I do not think people in the UK care about where immigrants are from, they care about whether they compete with them for jobs. This is why some groups of people wanted less EU immigration (predominantly unskilled) and more skilled immigration, and professional people almost universally want EU immigration and oppose post Brexit policies that have allowed more highly skilled immigration.
      - deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
      - tsimionescu 2y ago
        This doesn't mean anything. It's either about skin color or not. If they have another criteria by which they decided that us Eastern Europeans are subhuman, then they don't have a problem with brown people, they have a problem with us.
    - bennyelv 2y ago
      Now you just can't get a plumber at all. I'm not sure they really were "taking British jobs" after all.
  - switch007 2y ago
    Kinda. I think it's slowly becoming more anti immigration in general. Though with the London Mayoral election on Thursday, it seems like people want Khan out, using "ULEZ" as the excuse for not wanting a "brown" person. I know a fair few people who live in London and their only criticism of him is ULEZ, even if it doesn't effect them at all (massively brainwashed by Facebook)
    - foldr 2y ago
      Looks like concerns around ULEZ were way overblown, given Khan's comfortable win. A lot of noise drummed up by a small minority of fruitcakes on social media.
    - throwaway22032 2y ago
      Rishi Sunak, our current prime minister, is brown, and I don't think that's really come into play at all. Sadiq Khan is Muslim which is more of a wedge issue, but I would say in my circles, ULEZ, and more generally anti car sentiment, is a huge concern. In my experience as a Brit no-one really cares about skin colour but about culture, religion (if fundamentalist), accent, etc. It basically just comes down to "are you integrated". I don't think that it's unfair to expect people to fit into society. That's pretty much what the immigration debate is all about. If a Nigerian millionare comes over, brings his family, whacks them in a private school, basically no-one cares. Bring more. It's unskilled, uneducated people who have issues with integration that basically everyone wants to limit.
  - planede 2y ago
    I would think that the majority of immigrants that are not white are also not from the EU, but I don't know that statistics.
  - graemep 2y ago
    That is not true. The leaders of both the Brexit campaigns (Boris Johnson and Nigel Farage) both clearly said that they wanted more non EU (so mostly non-white) immigration - provided it was skilled people. Government policy since Brexit has made non-EU immigration easier. Remainers wanted less non-EU immgration and more EU immigration. So somehow the people who wanted less white immigration and more non-white immigration are the racists? This is one reason a lot of us Brown people voted for Brexit. not my main reason, which was mostly opposition to further integration (the commitment to "ever closer integration") and some aspects of EU decision making, legislation and regulation.
    - immibis 2y ago
      It's normal for racists to create excuses for why they are not racist, and more generally, fascists to create excuses for wby they are not fascist. You have to learn to see through it. Like, in the USA, they always complain about illegal immigration but say legal immigration is perfectly okay. If that were actually the case, they'd want an easy streamlined legal process. But they don't, because the point of the legal process being difficult is to keep certain types of people out. They're actually not okay with the kinds of certain kinds of people which mostly correlate to the ones who can't get through the legal process, and use "they're just too lazy to follow the process and if they followed the process I'd be fine with them" as a memetic shield against criticism.
    - Symbiote 2y ago
      The first point is true, but > Remainers wanted less non-EU immgration and more EU immigration. This is not true. I don't think there's a consensus on what 'remainers' wanted to do with non-EU immigration.
      - graemep 2y ago
        Given 1) the remainers in both the major parties wanted the keep the status quo, and 2) no prominent remainer politician or any significant remain campaign called for easier non-EU immigration I think it is reasonable to conclude that remainers in general (not all) were opposed to more non-EU immigration, and the policies they favoured lead to (and the actual effect of Brexit was) more non-white immigration and less white immigration.
ImHereToVote 2y ago
This is ultimately a good thing since UK politicians are mostly selected for by class. It's good for the EU that these useless eaters don't get to write legislation.

This is what the Brexit contras were warning for. The UK will still have to follow EU law, because they want to sell stuff in the EU. They just lost their voice in the process to write law

switch007 2y ago

It was 95%* about immigration so none of those arguments mattered * number pulled from my behind. But it was surely very high

immibis 2y ago
It was about brown people. Always is. They aren't bothered by white immigrants.
- irjoe 2y ago
  I'm not sure that's entirely true in the UK. The Polish plumber taking British jobs is a fairly common trope in far-right discourse. I believe this is prevalent across Western Europe in general.
  - switch007 2y ago
    How I long for a Polish plumber. Hard workers, better skilled, better value.
  - maccard 2y ago
    I think that was true 10 years ago, but now it seems to have evened off a bit. Generally speaking (in my circles and the circles I see around me with family etc) there’s an acceptance of the “polish plumber” as a hard working person getting by these days.
    - immibis 2y ago
      This happens to each race in turn. First they're brown people coming to steal our jobs, then they're hard workers and some other race is stealing our jobs, then they're white or white-equivalent.
      - short_sells_poo 2y ago
        It's likely down to the fact that once the proverbial Polish Plumbers left, a lot of people realized that there's nobody here who actually wants to do that work, no matter the price. So we have no nurses, we have no truck drivers, we have no electricians. And the list goes on. And it's impossible to import these people anymore, because a) the wages in the UK are low - lower than in most of the EU and much lower than in the US, and b) many of these professions are not really classified as high skill, even if they take a lot of practice.
  - jkaplowitz 2y ago
    I’m not convinced that the adherents of the UK and Western European far-right count Polish people as white, despite the typical Polish skin color. This is like how Italian and Irish people were often not considered white in the late 19th and early 20th century in the US, and probably in the UK too although I’m less familiar with that.
    - zarzavat 2y ago
      English people are generally not racist like Americans and don’t perceive the world in terms of a set of racial divisions. We are Island xenophobes, like Japanese people. There is us and then there is everybody else. Western Europeans get a pass because they are rich.
    - graemep 2y ago
      British culture is very different from US with regard to race. It took me a long time to understand what the difference was. In fact every culture I know (directly or am informed about) is different form the others. I wrote a blog post about this: https://pietersz.co.uk/2023/08/racism-culture-different https://pietersz.co.uk/2023/08/racism-culture-different I do not think people in the UK care about where immigrants are from, they care about whether they compete with them for jobs. This is why some groups of people wanted less EU immigration (predominantly unskilled) and more skilled immigration, and professional people almost universally want EU immigration and oppose post Brexit policies that have allowed more highly skilled immigration.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - tsimionescu 2y ago
      This doesn't mean anything. It's either about skin color or not. If they have another criteria by which they decided that us Eastern Europeans are subhuman, then they don't have a problem with brown people, they have a problem with us.
  - bennyelv 2y ago
    Now you just can't get a plumber at all. I'm not sure they really were "taking British jobs" after all.
- switch007 2y ago
  Kinda. I think it's slowly becoming more anti immigration in general. Though with the London Mayoral election on Thursday, it seems like people want Khan out, using "ULEZ" as the excuse for not wanting a "brown" person. I know a fair few people who live in London and their only criticism of him is ULEZ, even if it doesn't effect them at all (massively brainwashed by Facebook)
  - foldr 2y ago
    Looks like concerns around ULEZ were way overblown, given Khan's comfortable win. A lot of noise drummed up by a small minority of fruitcakes on social media.
  - throwaway22032 2y ago
    Rishi Sunak, our current prime minister, is brown, and I don't think that's really come into play at all. Sadiq Khan is Muslim which is more of a wedge issue, but I would say in my circles, ULEZ, and more generally anti car sentiment, is a huge concern. In my experience as a Brit no-one really cares about skin colour but about culture, religion (if fundamentalist), accent, etc. It basically just comes down to "are you integrated". I don't think that it's unfair to expect people to fit into society. That's pretty much what the immigration debate is all about. If a Nigerian millionare comes over, brings his family, whacks them in a private school, basically no-one cares. Bring more. It's unskilled, uneducated people who have issues with integration that basically everyone wants to limit.
- planede 2y ago
  I would think that the majority of immigrants that are not white are also not from the EU, but I don't know that statistics.
- graemep 2y ago
  That is not true. The leaders of both the Brexit campaigns (Boris Johnson and Nigel Farage) both clearly said that they wanted more non EU (so mostly non-white) immigration - provided it was skilled people. Government policy since Brexit has made non-EU immigration easier. Remainers wanted less non-EU immgration and more EU immigration. So somehow the people who wanted less white immigration and more non-white immigration are the racists? This is one reason a lot of us Brown people voted for Brexit. not my main reason, which was mostly opposition to further integration (the commitment to "ever closer integration") and some aspects of EU decision making, legislation and regulation.
  - immibis 2y ago
    It's normal for racists to create excuses for why they are not racist, and more generally, fascists to create excuses for wby they are not fascist. You have to learn to see through it. Like, in the USA, they always complain about illegal immigration but say legal immigration is perfectly okay. If that were actually the case, they'd want an easy streamlined legal process. But they don't, because the point of the legal process being difficult is to keep certain types of people out. They're actually not okay with the kinds of certain kinds of people which mostly correlate to the ones who can't get through the legal process, and use "they're just too lazy to follow the process and if they followed the process I'd be fine with them" as a memetic shield against criticism.
  - Symbiote 2y ago
    The first point is true, but > Remainers wanted less non-EU immgration and more EU immigration. This is not true. I don't think there's a consensus on what 'remainers' wanted to do with non-EU immigration.
    - graemep 2y ago
      Given 1) the remainers in both the major parties wanted the keep the status quo, and 2) no prominent remainer politician or any significant remain campaign called for easier non-EU immigration I think it is reasonable to conclude that remainers in general (not all) were opposed to more non-EU immigration, and the policies they favoured lead to (and the actual effect of Brexit was) more non-white immigration and less white immigration.

ImHereToVote 2y ago

This is ultimately a good thing since UK politicians are mostly selected for by class. It's good for the EU that these useless eaters don't get to write legislation.