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> the idea of founding a Jewish state in an Arab land, Palestine Why is it an Arab land? According to the Quran/Bible etc. it is very much the ancestral land

> the idea of founding a Jewish state in an Arab land, Palestine Why is it an Arab land? According to the Quran/Bible etc. it is very much the ancestral land of the Jews. But I agree this is a pointless discussion. Decisions were made, wars were fought. Complaining over what happened in 1947 is as bad as Jews complaining about what happened 2000 years ago. It's history. > that doesn't make what the Israelis have done to the Palestinians any better. I didn't say that what Israelis did to the Palestinians was good or justified. On the contrary. I agree the settlements are horrible and a lot of the stuff Israelis did was pretty terrible. But not one sided. The victim role by both sides is stupid and redundant. Both have weaponized it instead of compromising. Unfortunately, the protests seem to look at the act of pressuring as one sided: Israel should be pressured. This is especially galling when Hamas is holding 130 civilians (including women and children) hostage. This hurts the Palestinian civilians most of all and prolongs the conflict. > > Explain the Ivy league letter. Justifying the murder of Jews? > > I haven't seen anyone in the Ivy League doing that. That means you haven't looked. The letters signed by many organizations justify murder of Jews and have a twisted recap of history. They redefine Hamas as a resistance movement rather than as a murderous terrorist organization. Imagine students writing literally the day after 9/11, claiming that the US is at fault for the attack and that it was justified resistance. > a large (probably disproportionate) fraction of the pro-Palestinian demonstrators are Jewish. Sure. But also look at Israelis who want to enter the universities and can't. These are not right-wing lunatics who are pro war etc. We're talking people who are 100% for a two state solution. Barred from entry. Young people in general skew badly on this issue because they don't remember the history. I lived through the bombings in Tel Aviv. I remember the charred busses from Hamas's terrorism. I also remember the earlier Oslo years and the optimism as a Casino opened in Jericho and Israelis flocked to it as part of an optimistic shared future. Young people haven't seen evil. They think people can be reasoned with. They think everyone is what they say they are and that western mentality is universal. Older people understand that this isn't the case. People who smile over the death of their son or strap on a suicide vest are not the same. They are no freedom fighters.

DiogenesKynikos 2y ago
> Why is it an Arab land? Because the population was nearly 100% Arab. > But also look at Israelis who want to enter the universities and can't. ... Barred from entry. Israelis are not barred from entry. I know of only one individual Israeli who has been barred from entering the Columbia main campus, and that's because he has more than 50 harassment claims against him, and because he tried to lead a counterprotest directly into a protest. The administration told him to hold the counterprotest at a nearby location, so as not to create a direct physical confrontation.
- invalidname 2y ago
  > Because the population was nearly 100% Arab. When? Jews started coming back to Israel in the 19th century. That land was occupied by empires since the Jews were outcasts. Everyone who came there was a vagrant following the Ottoman empire. That doesn't make their land "theirs" anymore than it is ours. > Israelis are not barred from entry. I know of only one individual Israeli who has been barred from entering the Columbia main campus, and that's because he has more than 50 harassment claims against him, and because he tried to lead a counterprotest directly into a protest. The administration told him to hold the counterprotest at a nearby location, so as not to create a direct physical confrontation. E.g. Shai Davidai. He's a professor and was followed by quite a few people so they were all barred from entering. He specifically supports a two state solution, so what would he have to counter protest? Then there's all the Israeli students who were physically attacked? Including most ironically Yosef Hadad who's a Palestinian Israeli and was physically assaulted at Colombia.
  - DiogenesKynikos 2y ago
    > When? For many hundreds of years, until the British Empire took over and began supporting Zionist colonization of Palestine. The British denied the native population, which was almost 100% Arab, the right to determine what would happen with the land they lived on. Instead, Britain promised Palestine to an outside group. > E.g. Shai Davidai. He's the only person who's been banned from campus, for the reasons I stated before: he has been harassing and doxxing students, and he tried to lead a counter-protest directly into the protest. Saying that Jewish students in general are banned from campus because one specific harasser has been banned is not accurate. > Then there's all the Israeli students who were physically attacked? "All the Israeli students"? There haven't been any physical attacks on Israeli students at Columbia. Yosef Hadad isn't a student. He's a professional pro-Israel campaigner who went to campus, started yelling in the faces of protesters, and then got shoved by one of them. On the other hand, there have been plenty of assaults on pro-Palestinian students. A group of former IDF members on campus sprayed a bunch of pro-Palestinian protesters with a noxious chemical, sending them to the hospital. The university administration didn't care.

DiogenesKynikos 2y ago

> Why is it an Arab land? Because the population was nearly 100% Arab. > But also look at Israelis who want to enter the universities and can't. ... Barred from entry. Israelis are not barred from entry. I know of only one individual Israeli who has been barred from entering the Columbia main campus, and that's because he has more than 50 harassment claims against him, and because he tried to lead a counterprotest directly into a protest. The administration told him to hold the counterprotest at a nearby location, so as not to create a direct physical confrontation.

invalidname 2y ago
> Because the population was nearly 100% Arab. When? Jews started coming back to Israel in the 19th century. That land was occupied by empires since the Jews were outcasts. Everyone who came there was a vagrant following the Ottoman empire. That doesn't make their land "theirs" anymore than it is ours. > Israelis are not barred from entry. I know of only one individual Israeli who has been barred from entering the Columbia main campus, and that's because he has more than 50 harassment claims against him, and because he tried to lead a counterprotest directly into a protest. The administration told him to hold the counterprotest at a nearby location, so as not to create a direct physical confrontation. E.g. Shai Davidai. He's a professor and was followed by quite a few people so they were all barred from entering. He specifically supports a two state solution, so what would he have to counter protest? Then there's all the Israeli students who were physically attacked? Including most ironically Yosef Hadad who's a Palestinian Israeli and was physically assaulted at Colombia.
- DiogenesKynikos 2y ago
  > When? For many hundreds of years, until the British Empire took over and began supporting Zionist colonization of Palestine. The British denied the native population, which was almost 100% Arab, the right to determine what would happen with the land they lived on. Instead, Britain promised Palestine to an outside group. > E.g. Shai Davidai. He's the only person who's been banned from campus, for the reasons I stated before: he has been harassing and doxxing students, and he tried to lead a counter-protest directly into the protest. Saying that Jewish students in general are banned from campus because one specific harasser has been banned is not accurate. > Then there's all the Israeli students who were physically attacked? "All the Israeli students"? There haven't been any physical attacks on Israeli students at Columbia. Yosef Hadad isn't a student. He's a professional pro-Israel campaigner who went to campus, started yelling in the faces of protesters, and then got shoved by one of them. On the other hand, there have been plenty of assaults on pro-Palestinian students. A group of former IDF members on campus sprayed a bunch of pro-Palestinian protesters with a noxious chemical, sending them to the hospital. The university administration didn't care.