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It is a confusing definition. I wouldn’t consider most bread and pasta to be ultra processed but simply processed (except the bread that lasts for weeks). Ultra

It is a confusing definition. I wouldn’t consider most bread and pasta to be ultra processed but simply processed (except the bread that lasts for weeks). Ultra processed in my mind is when you take the source materials down to constitute parts and then Frankenstein a new food item out of it. Like Pringles. And then a traditional actual sliced potato chip is processed food because it’s a deep fried sliced potato. They’re probably about equally unhealthy too. It’s also confusing because I’ve had lentil or chickpea pasta which is ultra processed but has higher fiber and protein and is probably healthier than wheat based traditional pasta.

throwup238 3y ago
> It’s also confusing because I’ve had lentil or chickpea pasta which is ultra processed but has higher fiber and is probably healthier. That's why I think the nutrition value is the right way to look at it. The lentil pasta I've seen usually still has all its protein and fiber content like whole wheat pasta, but semolina pasta and white bread are made by first removing the bran and germ from the wheat which removes a lot of the nutritional value. That's why I'm arguing that white bread and pasta are ultra processed, whereas other foods like whole wheat and lentil pasta are highly processed, but not UPF. IMO removing the bran and germ and milling it is taking the materials down to constituent parts and Frankensteining a new food item out of it. It's not as extreme as getting down to basic chemistry but it's still ultra processing. The (sliced) potato chip is an interesting outlier. I don't think they're particularly processed but they're not very healthy to begin with. Focusing on UPF to the exclusion of nutrition value is a trap though.
code_biologist 3y ago
It seems like commercial interests are trying to muddy the waters for the definition of "ultra-processed food" in search results. The phrase as originally coined is a product of the Nova classification system [1]: The Nova classification is a framework for grouping edible substances based on the extent and purpose of food processing applied to them. Researchers at the University of São Paulo, Brazil, proposed the system in 2009. Nova classifies food into four groups: Group 1: Unprocessed or minimally processed foods - Unprocessed foods are edible parts of plants and animals, along with algae, fungi, and water... Group 2: Processed culinary ingredients - Processed culinary ingredients are derived from group 1 foods or else from nature by processes such as pressing, refining, grinding, milling, and drying. It also includes substances mined or extracted from nature.... Group 3: Processed foods - Processed foods are relatively simple food products produced by adding processed culinary ingredients (group 2 substances) such as salt or sugar to unprocessed (group 1) foods. Processed foods are made or preserved through baking, boiling, canning, bottling, and non-alcoholic fermentation... Group 4: Ultra-processed foods - Ultra-processed foods are formulations of ingredients, mostly of exclusive industrial use, typically created by series of industrial techniques and processes. Unprocessed (group 1) foods often compose a small proportion of their ingredients or are even lacking entirely. Ultra-processing often introduces food substances of little or no culinary use, such as hydrogenated oil, modified starch, protein isolate, and high-fructose corn syrup. The manufacturing processes for ultra-processed foods typically involve techniques such as extrusion, moulding, and pre-frying, along with the addition of various cosmetic additives, including those for flavour enhancement and colour... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nova_classification https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nova_classification
- Terr_ 3y ago
  > The phrase as originally coined is a product of the Nova classification system [...] "in 2009" That tracks, although I'd point out near-synonyms were already around quite a while before that, such as "heavily-" or "highly-" [0], and it's not guaranteed that everyone using "ultra-" knows or intends to refer to the Nova thing. [0] https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=ultra-processed+food%2Cheavily+processed+food%2Chighly+processed+food&year_start=1800&year_end=2019&corpus=en-2019&smoothing=3 https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=ultra-processe...
throwaway290232 3y ago
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throwup238 3y ago

> It’s also confusing because I’ve had lentil or chickpea pasta which is ultra processed but has higher fiber and is probably healthier. That's why I think the nutrition value is the right way to look at it. The lentil pasta I've seen usually still has all its protein and fiber content like whole wheat pasta, but semolina pasta and white bread are made by first removing the bran and germ from the wheat which removes a lot of the nutritional value. That's why I'm arguing that white bread and pasta are ultra processed, whereas other foods like whole wheat and lentil pasta are highly processed, but not UPF. IMO removing the bran and germ and milling it is taking the materials down to constituent parts and Frankensteining a new food item out of it. It's not as extreme as getting down to basic chemistry but it's still ultra processing. The (sliced) potato chip is an interesting outlier. I don't think they're particularly processed but they're not very healthy to begin with. Focusing on UPF to the exclusion of nutrition value is a trap though.

code_biologist 3y ago

It seems like commercial interests are trying to muddy the waters for the definition of "ultra-processed food" in search results. The phrase as originally coined is a product of the Nova classification system [1]: The Nova classification is a framework for grouping edible substances based on the extent and purpose of food processing applied to them. Researchers at the University of São Paulo, Brazil, proposed the system in 2009. Nova classifies food into four groups: Group 1: Unprocessed or minimally processed foods - Unprocessed foods are edible parts of plants and animals, along with algae, fungi, and water... Group 2: Processed culinary ingredients - Processed culinary ingredients are derived from group 1 foods or else from nature by processes such as pressing, refining, grinding, milling, and drying. It also includes substances mined or extracted from nature.... Group 3: Processed foods - Processed foods are relatively simple food products produced by adding processed culinary ingredients (group 2 substances) such as salt or sugar to unprocessed (group 1) foods. Processed foods are made or preserved through baking, boiling, canning, bottling, and non-alcoholic fermentation... Group 4: Ultra-processed foods - Ultra-processed foods are formulations of ingredients, mostly of exclusive industrial use, typically created by series of industrial techniques and processes. Unprocessed (group 1) foods often compose a small proportion of their ingredients or are even lacking entirely. Ultra-processing often introduces food substances of little or no culinary use, such as hydrogenated oil, modified starch, protein isolate, and high-fructose corn syrup. The manufacturing processes for ultra-processed foods typically involve techniques such as extrusion, moulding, and pre-frying, along with the addition of various cosmetic additives, including those for flavour enhancement and colour... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nova_classification https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nova_classification

Terr_ 3y ago
> The phrase as originally coined is a product of the Nova classification system [...] "in 2009" That tracks, although I'd point out near-synonyms were already around quite a while before that, such as "heavily-" or "highly-" [0], and it's not guaranteed that everyone using "ultra-" knows or intends to refer to the Nova thing. [0] https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=ultra-processed+food%2Cheavily+processed+food%2Chighly+processed+food&year_start=1800&year_end=2019&corpus=en-2019&smoothing=3 https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=ultra-processe...

throwaway290232 3y ago

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