5 ms·
Would Briar be a good alternative? https://briarproject.org/ https://briarproject.org/ edit: How it works: https://briarproject.org/how-it-works/ https://bria
by luuurker 2y ago
Would Briar be a good alternative?
https://briarproject.org/ https://briarproject.org/
edit: How it works: https://briarproject.org/how-it-works/ https://briarproject.org/how-it-works/
- unstatusthequo 2y agoAndroid only? Ugh
- luuurker 2y agoIt's annoying, but open source projects tend to prefer more open platforms. I assume that many Briar users use a deGoogled custom ROM instead of the stock Android ROM and a privacy focused app store like F-Droid.
- Zigurd 2y agoSeriously though, if you are going to take a phone to a protest, buy an Android used at a bodega and don't put anything personal on it. Expect to lose it.
- bishbosh 2y agoEven then, most burner phones have serial numbers they can track to the sale.
- Zigurd 2y agoI've bought a fair number of test devices. Nobody at a corner shop or mall phone repair kiosk has ever ID'ed me or kept track of the IMEI of a device I bought.
- bishbosh 2y agoInteresting. My understanding was that IMEI could be traced to what vendor it was sold to, then they could pull the purchases and either see the card used to buy it, or find the video when the transaction occurred. Guess it depends on whether there is a method to pin which the exact phone without needing to scrub the purchases records.
- envy2 2y agoYou are significantly overestimating the level of recordkeeping by random sellers of used and/or ultra-cheap phones. Manufacturers, major retailers, and carriers may keep this information, but bodegas and street vendors certainly do not.
- bishbosh 2y agoThis is certainly approaching murder investigation levels of effort by law enforcement, but I don't think it's ridiculous to imagine a POS system being used that keeps transaction records for a year or two.
- throwaway14356 2y agoplenty of say disposable people to buy disposable phones for you.
- NegativeK 2y agoPay cash and wait 90+ days for video records to roll over. But, at least in the country I live in, this is excessive for a typical protest burner.
- SahAssar 2y agoThis is literally a plotline in the "the wire". There are so many links in that chain that need to line up, from the manufacturer keeping track of it to the distribution system to keep track of what batch goes where to the vendor keeping track of what phone IMEI is sold when or to who. Even if all those link up you need to get at the video within the rotation time for their video storage or link to their financial transaction data. I would not be surprised if it is still as easy to evade as shown in the show (and as easy to get wrong).
- vedmed 2y agoUS is one of the few nations where you can buy a phone and sim card without exposing your ID. You can even wear a full face mask when you do it if you're paranoid.
- squarefoot 2y agoNew burner phones, probably, but one could exit from a flea market or 2nd hand shop with a €100 bagful of phones not linked to anyone, at least until one puts personal data inside them or creates a potential association by using the same phones along personal ones on the same WiFi/cell tower/position or calling the same numbers.
- vedmed 2y agoYou chose the walled garden.
- jchw 2y agoTIL Briar does "offline messaging". This is news to me, though I've never used it. That said, I am curious to hear more about the offline messaging. If it only is able to exchange when the two people who are trying to communicate with eachother are directly nearby it isn't so much a mesh network, right? A mesh network would be able to route across other nodes to get to its destination. Does Briar do that? The "How it works" page doesn't really seem to answer much, so I am assuming not.
- bishbosh 2y agoIt looks like this allows short range communication, but doesn't set up a meshnet. So wouldn't be great for anything more than a couple hundred feet. Beyond that though, at this point for protests (in the US at least), the suggested opsec is to leave your phone at home.
- causality0 2y agoIt's getting so "and he left his phone at home" has been brought up as evidence in many trials.
- bishbosh 2y agoHas it?! That's distressing...
- rakoo 2y agoNot exactly. Briar uses bluetooth or wifi when peers are close, but also tor (over standard internet) when not, so it's possible to use it at wide scale. Briar actually does set up a meshnet for groups and forums, so long as people are contacts of each other. See the diagram here: https://briarproject.org/img/howitworks3(mobile).svg https://briarproject.org/img/howitworks3(mobile).svg
- bishbosh 2y agoI would think that a meshnet only over contacts would have too many holes to really be helpful in the hypothetical protest setting that's being described. Definitely a cool way to do it! Do you happen to know if it's XMPP or something, or it's own protocol?
- rakoo 2y agoNo, they're using their own protocol: https://code.briarproject.org/briar/briar/-/wikis/home https://code.briarproject.org/briar/briar/-/wikis/home There are still holes of course, connecting only to contacts limits the spread of messages but ensures you don't leak too much information if your device is compromised
- zamalek 2y agoI think a combination of LoRa, bluetooth, and WiFi might be the alternative. I've seen videos of LoRA functioning below the noise floor (perfect for evading RF triangulation), and at 200km (perfect for reaching past physical borders). The major weakness is line of sight (and availability), but bluetooth and WiFi can help there.
- klysm 2y agoTheoretically it can't be below the noise floor right? I don’t know much about radio stuff fwiw that just seems impossible by definition
- masfuerte 2y agoGPS signals are below the noise floor when they arrive at your phone.
- zamalek 2y agohttps://www.thethingsnetwork.org/docs/lorawan/rssi-and-snr/ https://www.thethingsnetwork.org/docs/lorawan/rssi-and-snr/ > If the RSSI is below the noise floor, it is impossible to demodulate the signal. However, LoRa can demodulate signals that are below the noise floor.
- picture 2y agoCommunication protocols that incorporate spread spectrum (code/direct sequence for GPS and chirp spread spectrum for LoRa) get a "processing gain" at the stage of the receiver where the signal is despreaded. The resulting signal will have an SNR roughly equivalent to a narrow band (non spread spectrum) signal with otherwise the same parameters. You will have a generally equivalent bit error rate for the same SNR. It's also possible to receive non spread-spectrum signals below the noise floor, if you can observe it over longer time and get additional "processing gain" that way Additionally, it is a bad idea to use spread spectrum as a means of concealment because if the adversary is physically near enough, your signal will show up above the noise floor. Due to the inverse square law etc, you have a narrow zone of enough power to be received by your remote recipient, but not enough power for closer adversaries to detect you. You are also reliant on the unlikely situation of an adversary without more advanced RF hardware with lower noise receivers.
- mminer237 2y agoIn theory maybe, but I have never gotten Briar to work in practice without Internet.
- lionkor 2y agoBriar is awesome. Ive used it to talk to my wife when we are seated away from each other in planes or trains and cant get up, via bluetooth due to lack of service, wifi, or because of airplane mode.