6 ms·

Everything should be opt-in. Burden should be on them, something like, "We want to share your data and if you agree here are the benefits to you."

by idatum 2y ago

krustyburger 2y ago
[flagged]
ethbr1 2y ago
That's something I think the EU got right -- being hard-nosed about true tracking consent requiring a user to receive the same outcome regardless of their choice. Anything shy is begging companies to dark-engineer patterns around obtaining it.
- nox101 2y ago
  The EU didn't get this right - or else they aren't enforcing it. I'm in the EU right now and the crap I see is a popup "We respect your privacy. Us and 352 (not an exaggeration!) of our partners are collecting data on you. Approve or Details?" Pick details and you can spend your time going through the partners https://pasteboard.co/rrL2bpmiE6Zq.png https://pasteboard.co/rrL2bpmiE6Zq.png And most you can't reject Even more hilarious. pageboard itself said 847 partners! https://pasteboard.co/XQHhPzTw42Pv.png https://pasteboard.co/XQHhPzTw42Pv.png
  - immibis 2y ago
    This is mostly unenforced, as it WAS ruled that it must be as easy to reject as to accept. However, they're going after "consent to ads or buy a subscription" which I thought was a pretty fair compromise business model.
    - Maarten88 2y ago
      I'm generally okay with Ads, that is fair. But I'm not okay with tracking, consolidating data about me from different sources, analyzing it and selling that. It is too hard to understand how that may impact me and others.
    - ethbr1 2y ago
      Imho, the problem with "consent to ads or buy a subscription" is that it becomes the new CableCARD [0]. I.e. all companies really want to be in the business of tracking customers, because they can repackage derivative products and increase their revenue. So the "subscription" option ends up experiencing a lack of support, mysterious technical issues, underinvestment, etc. End result, customers don't choose it, which businesses use to lobby for further eroding mandates. You can't force a company to provide and support a product they don't want to. You can force them to turn one off. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/CableCARD https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/CableCARD
- hdevarajan 2y ago
  I don’t think the Eu got it right; crucially they missed requiring these choice points to be automatedly navigable for users (eg “.. and if you must publish the metadata representing the choice architecture this way, use these standard keywords to present options, and must allow users to use automation to make their selection “) The first reg this happens in will I think make billions the world over realize this is what the template of all opt-in online regulation has to be and will hopefully change the world.
  - ethbr1 2y ago
    That's a case of the perfect being the enemy of the good. If you boil the lobster all at once, the huge ad industry will ensure such regulation never passes. If you gradually increase regulation, then it stands a change of actually passing, and eventually accomplishes the same goal (even if over a longer timeframe). Getting everyone to agree that a mandatory, regulated prompt is required is step 1.
calvinmorrison 2y ago
if this is the case, it really needs to MATERIALLY benefit you. My friend uses all the rewards apps and really uses credit card points, programmes, etc, and it does benefit them. Me? I just use cash everywhere and now the guy at harbor freight knows I'm the guy who says 'I dont have a cell phone number'. Contracts you know, they need to benefit both sides.
grobbyy 2y ago
I have mixed feelings about opt in. A single accidental click on a web site and GDPR has failed to protect the user. Dark patterns allow that to be gamed. And it complicates legitimate uses. I'd like auditable data. I should have an easy way to discover everyone with my data (including things like IP logs), see how it's used (at the level of source), and have it destroyed.
notfed 2y ago
Why would anyone opt-in to having their location sold? Some things should just be banned.
- beardedetim 2y ago
  For the right price, I'd sell every bit of data I produce!
  - notfed 2y ago
    Yeah, if the profit comes back to me, totally different situation :)
paledot 2y ago
That's the current model, except "the benefits to you" are you get a telephone. Don't like it, go to the one other phone company that has an identical "agreement". Opt-in doesn't fix anything. Only by making these practices illegal (and aggressively enforcing the law) can this be stopped.

Everything should be opt-in. Burden should be on them, something like, "We want to share your data and if you agree here are the benefits to you."

by idatum 2y ago

Everything should be opt-in. Burden should be on them, something like, "We want to share your data and if you agree here are the benefits to you."

krustyburger 2y ago

[flagged]

ethbr1 2y ago

That's something I think the EU got right -- being hard-nosed about true tracking consent requiring a user to receive the same outcome regardless of their choice. Anything shy is begging companies to dark-engineer patterns around obtaining it.

nox101 2y ago
The EU didn't get this right - or else they aren't enforcing it. I'm in the EU right now and the crap I see is a popup "We respect your privacy. Us and 352 (not an exaggeration!) of our partners are collecting data on you. Approve or Details?" Pick details and you can spend your time going through the partners https://pasteboard.co/rrL2bpmiE6Zq.png https://pasteboard.co/rrL2bpmiE6Zq.png And most you can't reject Even more hilarious. pageboard itself said 847 partners! https://pasteboard.co/XQHhPzTw42Pv.png https://pasteboard.co/XQHhPzTw42Pv.png
- immibis 2y ago
  This is mostly unenforced, as it WAS ruled that it must be as easy to reject as to accept. However, they're going after "consent to ads or buy a subscription" which I thought was a pretty fair compromise business model.
  - Maarten88 2y ago
    I'm generally okay with Ads, that is fair. But I'm not okay with tracking, consolidating data about me from different sources, analyzing it and selling that. It is too hard to understand how that may impact me and others.
  - ethbr1 2y ago
    Imho, the problem with "consent to ads or buy a subscription" is that it becomes the new CableCARD [0]. I.e. all companies really want to be in the business of tracking customers, because they can repackage derivative products and increase their revenue. So the "subscription" option ends up experiencing a lack of support, mysterious technical issues, underinvestment, etc. End result, customers don't choose it, which businesses use to lobby for further eroding mandates. You can't force a company to provide and support a product they don't want to. You can force them to turn one off. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/CableCARD https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/CableCARD
hdevarajan 2y ago
I don’t think the Eu got it right; crucially they missed requiring these choice points to be automatedly navigable for users (eg “.. and if you must publish the metadata representing the choice architecture this way, use these standard keywords to present options, and must allow users to use automation to make their selection “) The first reg this happens in will I think make billions the world over realize this is what the template of all opt-in online regulation has to be and will hopefully change the world.
- ethbr1 2y ago
  That's a case of the perfect being the enemy of the good. If you boil the lobster all at once, the huge ad industry will ensure such regulation never passes. If you gradually increase regulation, then it stands a change of actually passing, and eventually accomplishes the same goal (even if over a longer timeframe). Getting everyone to agree that a mandatory, regulated prompt is required is step 1.

calvinmorrison 2y ago

if this is the case, it really needs to MATERIALLY benefit you. My friend uses all the rewards apps and really uses credit card points, programmes, etc, and it does benefit them. Me? I just use cash everywhere and now the guy at harbor freight knows I'm the guy who says 'I dont have a cell phone number'. Contracts you know, they need to benefit both sides.

grobbyy 2y ago

I have mixed feelings about opt in. A single accidental click on a web site and GDPR has failed to protect the user. Dark patterns allow that to be gamed. And it complicates legitimate uses. I'd like auditable data. I should have an easy way to discover everyone with my data (including things like IP logs), see how it's used (at the level of source), and have it destroyed.

notfed 2y ago

Why would anyone opt-in to having their location sold? Some things should just be banned.

beardedetim 2y ago
For the right price, I'd sell every bit of data I produce!
- notfed 2y ago
  Yeah, if the profit comes back to me, totally different situation :)

paledot 2y ago

That's the current model, except "the benefits to you" are you get a telephone. Don't like it, go to the one other phone company that has an identical "agreement". Opt-in doesn't fix anything. Only by making these practices illegal (and aggressively enforcing the law) can this be stopped.