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> "set reasonable restrictions on phone usage"? It's not so much that people are too dumb to do this or don't understand the danger, it's that doing this well

> "set reasonable restrictions on phone usage"? It's not so much that people are too dumb to do this or don't understand the danger, it's that doing this well is tedious and time-consuming and expensive. Setting up parental controls and monitoring them is a chore, you have to sign up for a bunch of apps you don't want and read outdated docs and troubleshoot random error messages and crap. Most of the good stuff costs money, all of the shitty stuff is free. Finding educational apps that aren't terrible requires research, whereas the worst garbage imaginable is heavily advertised. So, I'm not saying you're wrong, but that this is a problem with incentives as opposed to a moral failing. I think there's a direct parallel to the rise of highly processed foods. The people 2-3 generations ago understood that junk food was unhealthy, and very few people fed their kids 100% soda and hot pockets, but junk food was so much cheaper and easier that people gradually allowed more and more into their diets, and now here we are with an adult obesity rate 3x that of 1960. > "teach your child about the issues with being on a phone all day" Edit to add, it seems most of your other responders are responding to this bit, which I agree is not realistic (children aren't rational to reliably refrain from something just because you can explain why it's bad) but I can see why you're frustrated that they're zeroing in on that part and not the part I responded to.

squigz 2y ago
> doing this well is tedious and time-consuming and expensive. Doesn't this sum up being a parent in general? :P You raise a fair enough point, though.
squigz 2y ago
> Edit to add, it seems most of your other responders are responding to this bit, which I agree is not realistic (children aren't rational to reliably refrain from something just because you can explain why it's bad) but I can see why you're frustrated that they're zeroing in on that part and not the part I responded to. What's frustrating to me is that people are taking this so literally and not reading into at all. I'm not suggesting parents be like, "Okay Tommy, here's why phones are bad, now here you go!" and never talk about it again. That's utterly absurd, and isn't how anyone should expect a parent to teach a child life skills. It's a constant battle - as you say, tedious, time-consuming, and expensive - to raise a child with good principles. Why is this thread acting as though teaching our children self-control is somehow a different lesson?
- ineptech 2y ago
  > Why is this thread acting as though teaching our children self-control is somehow a different lesson? Because some things require more self-control than others. Imagine if the drinking fountains in public parks had non-alcoholic beer instead of water. Installed and maintained by Budweiser, totally free of charge, guaranteed ice-cold. Responsible parents would avoid the beer fountains and bring a thermos of water, but a lot of parents would just let their kids drink from them, right? And even very responsible parents would probably let their kids drink from them occasionally, because we forgot the thermos, and it's right there and it's free. Raising non-drinking kids in that world would be harder than in this one. Everything you said about "teaching self-control" and the importance of parental effort would still be true, but it would also be true that when kids in that world start drinking earlier than in ours, it's not solely the parents' fault. That probably sounds like a ridiculous example, but I think it's pretty analogous to schools showing Youtube videos. My kids had never heard of youtube before they saw it in their second grade classroom, and I'm not thrilled about it, but I get it, because it's right there and it's free. Raising kids is hard no matter what, but the fact that the world's biggest and best source of good educational content also happens to be riddled with crap makes it harder. Not everything is like that. The library doesn't have Stephen King mixed in with the picture books. The Disney channel isn't also Pornhub. The parks don't have beer fountains. That's the difference.

squigz 2y ago

> doing this well is tedious and time-consuming and expensive. Doesn't this sum up being a parent in general? :P You raise a fair enough point, though.

squigz 2y ago

> Edit to add, it seems most of your other responders are responding to this bit, which I agree is not realistic (children aren't rational to reliably refrain from something just because you can explain why it's bad) but I can see why you're frustrated that they're zeroing in on that part and not the part I responded to. What's frustrating to me is that people are taking this so literally and not reading into at all. I'm not suggesting parents be like, "Okay Tommy, here's why phones are bad, now here you go!" and never talk about it again. That's utterly absurd, and isn't how anyone should expect a parent to teach a child life skills. It's a constant battle - as you say, tedious, time-consuming, and expensive - to raise a child with good principles. Why is this thread acting as though teaching our children self-control is somehow a different lesson?

ineptech 2y ago
> Why is this thread acting as though teaching our children self-control is somehow a different lesson? Because some things require more self-control than others. Imagine if the drinking fountains in public parks had non-alcoholic beer instead of water. Installed and maintained by Budweiser, totally free of charge, guaranteed ice-cold. Responsible parents would avoid the beer fountains and bring a thermos of water, but a lot of parents would just let their kids drink from them, right? And even very responsible parents would probably let their kids drink from them occasionally, because we forgot the thermos, and it's right there and it's free. Raising non-drinking kids in that world would be harder than in this one. Everything you said about "teaching self-control" and the importance of parental effort would still be true, but it would also be true that when kids in that world start drinking earlier than in ours, it's not solely the parents' fault. That probably sounds like a ridiculous example, but I think it's pretty analogous to schools showing Youtube videos. My kids had never heard of youtube before they saw it in their second grade classroom, and I'm not thrilled about it, but I get it, because it's right there and it's free. Raising kids is hard no matter what, but the fact that the world's biggest and best source of good educational content also happens to be riddled with crap makes it harder. Not everything is like that. The library doesn't have Stephen King mixed in with the picture books. The Disney channel isn't also Pornhub. The parks don't have beer fountains. That's the difference.