> add in a carseat or two Adding in modern car seats absolutely blows up the amount of space you need. With 2 young kids I can barely fit both of the carseats

> add in a carseat or two Adding in modern car seats absolutely blows up the amount of space you need. With 2 young kids I can barely fit both of the carseats in the back of my Range Rover. As a kid, 5 of us would pack into one 2-door sedan without shoulder restraints, just waist seat-belts. I'm not proposing we go back to less safe conditions for children, just saying it does clearly makes a difference. (And I've lived in some parts of the world where entire families fit onto one moped, so this American level of safety is not universal)