3 ms·

No, we dont want jr level tech talent. If are walking into your first job and you dont have an internship or some open source on your resume I know that you go

No, we dont want jr level tech talent. If are walking into your first job and you dont have an internship or some open source on your resume I know that you got your degree for the money, not because your passionate. I can also tell you that all the leet code interviews are bullshit. They are a piss poor excuse to filter out the "undesirable candidates". Could you imagine if we hired designers like coders? Yes were gonna need you to come in, we have some text for you to kern and the easle portion of your application is going to be in acrylic or oils, sorry we dont do water color here.

tombert 3y ago
> I can also tell you that all the leet code interviews are bullshit. How else are we going to figure out if this developer knows how to use a hash table??? :) > If are walking into your first job and you dont have an internship or some open source on your resume I know that you got your degree for the money I don't to be "that guy", but what's wrong with doing things "for the money"? I code for fun more than average, but I work for corporations, unambiguously, for the money. If they stopped paying me, I'd stop showing up. There are lots of days (most days?) that I would much rather be working on my own projects than trying to make multi[m|b]illionaires even more millions, but I also like having a paycheck so I work at a company for the money. I think treating work like anything other than a business transaction is a great way to get burnt out, which is why I really don't put up with companies saying "we're more than a job, we're family here!", because that's not true. I used to believe that stuff, longer than I should, but fundamentally a business is a for-profit enterprise, the moment that they think it'll be more profitable to not pay you then they will stop paying you. A "family" doesn't require me to constantly prove my worth to them. I don't think I'm going to have a Zoom meeting with my mom talking about how the market has been bad and my performance is down from last quarter and they have to drop me as a son. Nearly all employment in the US is "at will", and that goes both ways. ETA: I guess what I'm getting at is that I don't really like the sort of culty thing that software engineer do, where you have to treat "coding" as something deeper than "a job". I have met plenty of engineers that I think are very good, but after they sign off for the day they don't even touch the computer. I do code all the time, but I don't really begrudge people who do it transactionally, and it's not something we demand from most other professions. Do you really care if your mechanic fixes up cars in their free time? Are you going to be upset if your chef eats mostly Hamburger Helper at home? Do you think a carpenter is untalented just because they have Ikea furniture at home? You're free to think all those things, but I don't. It's easy to forget that coding is still work, and a lot of people don't really want to work if they're not getting something out of it, and I don't blame them.
- zer00eyz 3y ago
  Does every one who goes to acting school become Meryl Streep? Does Mery Streep do community theater? There is a reason that I want to work with talented people, passionate people ones who are smarter and/or more knowledgeable than I am... If the money is the only reason your in the game, you dont make it to Sr engineer... you and up a PM or a Scrum master or... Edit: It isnt about the 9-5... it's about the passion you bring to the table. NO one achieved greatness just because we paid them a bunch of money.
  - tombert 3y ago
    > Does every one who goes to acting school become Meryl Streep? I don't know that I entirely get the analogy you're going for but I'll take a stab at it. There are a lot more software engineer jobs than professional acting jobs. To be competitive in acting you probably do need to live poor for years with the hopes that you'll eventually make lots of money when you become a star. Most people don't become stars, this isn't really secret knowledge, so there's an expectation that you kind of have to be doing it for fun. Software engineering isn't as glamorous as acting, there are a lot more positions available for it, and it does pay reasonably well (not Meryl Streep money sadly), so I think it's perfectly rational for a person to try and get into it for a reasonably stable job that pays well. > There is a reason that I want to work with talented people, passionate people ones who are smarter and/or more knowledgeable than I am... Coding for fun doesn't imply "talented", and doing a job for money doesn't imply "not talented". > If the money is the only reason your in the game, you dont make it to Sr engineer That's just not true. I know several people who became senior engineers but don't code for fun. I can't read their minds so I can't know for sure why they got into software, but by the time I met them they were pretty clear that coding was something that they do just for work. ETA: > It isnt about the 9-5... it's about the passion you bring to the table. NO one achieved greatness just because we paid them a bunch of money. "Greatness" is a term that I don't think I actually understand the meaning of. A lot of people aren't trying to become the next John Carmack. Most people that I've met who think they're some fucking genius engineer really aren't, and write really terrible code. Maybe this isn't your intention but what you're saying is kind of coming off like some sort of purity test, and is needlessly reductive about motivations.

tombert 3y ago

> I can also tell you that all the leet code interviews are bullshit. How else are we going to figure out if this developer knows how to use a hash table??? :) > If are walking into your first job and you dont have an internship or some open source on your resume I know that you got your degree for the money I don't to be "that guy", but what's wrong with doing things "for the money"? I code for fun more than average, but I work for corporations, unambiguously, for the money. If they stopped paying me, I'd stop showing up. There are lots of days (most days?) that I would much rather be working on my own projects than trying to make multi[m|b]illionaires even more millions, but I also like having a paycheck so I work at a company for the money. I think treating work like anything other than a business transaction is a great way to get burnt out, which is why I really don't put up with companies saying "we're more than a job, we're family here!", because that's not true. I used to believe that stuff, longer than I should, but fundamentally a business is a for-profit enterprise, the moment that they think it'll be more profitable to not pay you then they will stop paying you. A "family" doesn't require me to constantly prove my worth to them. I don't think I'm going to have a Zoom meeting with my mom talking about how the market has been bad and my performance is down from last quarter and they have to drop me as a son. Nearly all employment in the US is "at will", and that goes both ways. ETA: I guess what I'm getting at is that I don't really like the sort of culty thing that software engineer do, where you have to treat "coding" as something deeper than "a job". I have met plenty of engineers that I think are very good, but after they sign off for the day they don't even touch the computer. I do code all the time, but I don't really begrudge people who do it transactionally, and it's not something we demand from most other professions. Do you really care if your mechanic fixes up cars in their free time? Are you going to be upset if your chef eats mostly Hamburger Helper at home? Do you think a carpenter is untalented just because they have Ikea furniture at home? You're free to think all those things, but I don't. It's easy to forget that coding is still work, and a lot of people don't really want to work if they're not getting something out of it, and I don't blame them.

zer00eyz 3y ago
Does every one who goes to acting school become Meryl Streep? Does Mery Streep do community theater? There is a reason that I want to work with talented people, passionate people ones who are smarter and/or more knowledgeable than I am... If the money is the only reason your in the game, you dont make it to Sr engineer... you and up a PM or a Scrum master or... Edit: It isnt about the 9-5... it's about the passion you bring to the table. NO one achieved greatness just because we paid them a bunch of money.
- tombert 3y ago
  > Does every one who goes to acting school become Meryl Streep? I don't know that I entirely get the analogy you're going for but I'll take a stab at it. There are a lot more software engineer jobs than professional acting jobs. To be competitive in acting you probably do need to live poor for years with the hopes that you'll eventually make lots of money when you become a star. Most people don't become stars, this isn't really secret knowledge, so there's an expectation that you kind of have to be doing it for fun. Software engineering isn't as glamorous as acting, there are a lot more positions available for it, and it does pay reasonably well (not Meryl Streep money sadly), so I think it's perfectly rational for a person to try and get into it for a reasonably stable job that pays well. > There is a reason that I want to work with talented people, passionate people ones who are smarter and/or more knowledgeable than I am... Coding for fun doesn't imply "talented", and doing a job for money doesn't imply "not talented". > If the money is the only reason your in the game, you dont make it to Sr engineer That's just not true. I know several people who became senior engineers but don't code for fun. I can't read their minds so I can't know for sure why they got into software, but by the time I met them they were pretty clear that coding was something that they do just for work. ETA: > It isnt about the 9-5... it's about the passion you bring to the table. NO one achieved greatness just because we paid them a bunch of money. "Greatness" is a term that I don't think I actually understand the meaning of. A lot of people aren't trying to become the next John Carmack. Most people that I've met who think they're some fucking genius engineer really aren't, and write really terrible code. Maybe this isn't your intention but what you're saying is kind of coming off like some sort of purity test, and is needlessly reductive about motivations.