7 ms·

The most realistic Russian sleeper scenario imo was in Slow Horses. Brits don't insult your intelligence too greatly in their spook shows; the American variety

The most realistic Russian sleeper scenario imo was in Slow Horses. Brits don't insult your intelligence too greatly in their spook shows; the American variety always involves some sort of super-human characters. It's good as entertainment, the Americans, but just over the top.

jjtheblunt 2y ago
Yeah but "the dogs" in Slow Horses is laughably out of control ridiculous at points...reaches out of your immersion in the interesting story to grab you, shake you, and declare what you're watching is absurd hyperbole. Very disappointed by that aspect and I hope they're done with that excess.
- scrumper 2y ago
  Eh, maybe? There's got to be _something_ for sociopathic ex-squaddies to do who don't want to go back to civvie street. I found their existence believable, if not the high speed Range Rover driving stuff. It's very clearly not going for full-on realism, obviously a fantasy spy show. So the dogs work in that context - at least for me. EDIT: someone else mentioned Tinker Tailor (either the '80s BBC miniseries or the Gary Oldman movie - once again he's killing it) which is far more grounded. That might be more up your street? I enjoyed both a lot. Bleak as hell though.
  - temporarely 2y ago
    > Bleak as hell though. It's called Realism.
- temporarely 2y ago
  That's a fair statement. My standard for this type of show remains BBC's Tinker Tailor Solider Spy (1979) and the follow up Smiley's People (1982). Alec Guinness owns Smiley. Just perfect. Absolutely gripping yet low budget [+] it actually demands that you use your intellect to keep up. If you haven't seen those I say whip up ye old torrent client and get some. Anyways, I did say "too greatly". Someone up there says "no spoilers" so .. https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0080297/ https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0080297/ https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0083480/ https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0083480/
  - jjtheblunt 2y ago
    agreed: john le carre bbc is great. also loved Luther, slightly off topic.
  - beezle 2y ago
    Back in the late 80s they did a TV production of Deighton's Berlin Game, Mexico Set, London Match. Unfortunately, BBC/GranadaTV do not wish to release it on dvd or streaming even in original quality, assuming the tapes still exist. There is, however, a low quality youtube (probably a copy of home VHS): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezekuICeYlg&list=PLSpG6jj23Vgoy7WF1RlivWVCozM-kUeu8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezekuICeYlg&list=PLSpG6jj23V... Watched with my father growing up, may even have some home copies myself.
- pixl97 2y ago
  >is laughably out of control ridiculous at points I mean this is just American politics in general.
  - jjtheblunt 2y ago
    It's a show specifically about MI5 in Britain.
scrumper 2y ago
That was a brilliant show. Not just because of Gary Oldman. Well-drawn characters throughout. I've just started season 3 so no spoilers please :)
- JackFr 2y ago
  Gary Oldman was a lot of it. I had read and enjoyed the first two books. After the first couple of episodes I had to admit I was watching it for Gary Oldman more than anything else. I'd watch just a supercut of him expressing disdain for and disappointment with his subordinates.
- rmcpherson 2y ago
  If you enjoy Slow Horses, I highly recommend the book series it’s based on. I’m not sure if Mick Herron wrote the books with Gary Oldman in mind, but it’s the perfect Oldman character nonetheless. The show is quite a faithful adaptation of the books, even down to some lines. Excellent review of Oldman in the 3rd season: https://defector.com/gary-oldman-is-gross-and-loving-it?giftLink=86f731f481cfdbc26b624a3bc57829cb https://defector.com/gary-oldman-is-gross-and-loving-it?gift...
4rt 2y ago
Sandbaggers is still up there as one of the best, I rewatched it last week.
- mayd 2y ago
  I am English, and old enough to have seen "Sandbaggers". I don't know how I never heard of this show until I found the complete series on Youtube a few months ago. Now I am enjoying viewing it for the first time.
Barrin92 2y ago
>Brits don't insult your intelligence too greatly in their spook shows; the American variety always involves some sort of super-human characters. This is why I could never get into House of Cards, it's just so over the top compared to something like Borgen which for me to this day is still one of the best political dramas ever made, also sadly went somewhat under the radar especially across the pond.
- Karellen 2y ago
  Did you check out the original UK House of Cards? Worth catching if you can find it.
- DrFalkyn 2y ago
  It wasn't any over the top than the original. It mostly just followed The BBC production almost to the letter, except with US spin. Until Season 4?. Whenever the re-election campaign started. Joel Kinnaman, while a great actor (loved him in Altered Carbon) was a massive miscast as a plausible candidate for the GOP. Mostly due to youth. And the last season was a Game of Thrones-level utter disaster.
  - croisillon 2y ago
    except it made more sense Francis Urquhart being Conservative than Frank Underwood being Democrat
  - adhamsalama 2y ago
    This is the first time I see a fellow Altered Carbon fan in the wild.
    - 0cf8612b2e1e 2y ago
      I thought it was a great standalone show. What I found unforgivable were the underlying plot changes vs the books. The Last Envoy? What? That did not even become a plot point (at least in season 1, I bailed pretty early in S2). Also, Envoys are terrorists and not the ultimate-special ops forces?
roywiggins 2y ago
The latest season got a bit silly at the end, but still entertaining.
fransje26 2y ago
> Brits don't insult your intelligence too greatly in their [..] shows That's a very way to express that idea. I'll be reusing that, if you don't mind.. :-) I've always expressed it more crudely as having the feeling of being forcefully lobotomized by the producers..
- darksim905 2y ago
  As in, British shows don't necessarily explain or show everything? I'm a bit lost here.
  - jijijijij 2y ago
    Well, looks like British television isn't for you.
  - fransje26 2y ago
    As in: those shows don't insult your intelligence by presenting something impossible or untruthful as a fact, and by assuming that the viewer will be too intellectually challenged to question anything spoon fed to him. You'll know when you see a show or a broadcast that gives you the impression your brain is leaking out of your ears.

jjtheblunt 2y ago

Yeah but "the dogs" in Slow Horses is laughably out of control ridiculous at points...reaches out of your immersion in the interesting story to grab you, shake you, and declare what you're watching is absurd hyperbole. Very disappointed by that aspect and I hope they're done with that excess.

scrumper 2y ago
Eh, maybe? There's got to be _something_ for sociopathic ex-squaddies to do who don't want to go back to civvie street. I found their existence believable, if not the high speed Range Rover driving stuff. It's very clearly not going for full-on realism, obviously a fantasy spy show. So the dogs work in that context - at least for me. EDIT: someone else mentioned Tinker Tailor (either the '80s BBC miniseries or the Gary Oldman movie - once again he's killing it) which is far more grounded. That might be more up your street? I enjoyed both a lot. Bleak as hell though.
- temporarely 2y ago
  > Bleak as hell though. It's called Realism.
temporarely 2y ago
That's a fair statement. My standard for this type of show remains BBC's Tinker Tailor Solider Spy (1979) and the follow up Smiley's People (1982). Alec Guinness owns Smiley. Just perfect. Absolutely gripping yet low budget [+] it actually demands that you use your intellect to keep up. If you haven't seen those I say whip up ye old torrent client and get some. Anyways, I did say "too greatly". Someone up there says "no spoilers" so .. https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0080297/ https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0080297/ https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0083480/ https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0083480/
- jjtheblunt 2y ago
  agreed: john le carre bbc is great. also loved Luther, slightly off topic.
- beezle 2y ago
  Back in the late 80s they did a TV production of Deighton's Berlin Game, Mexico Set, London Match. Unfortunately, BBC/GranadaTV do not wish to release it on dvd or streaming even in original quality, assuming the tapes still exist. There is, however, a low quality youtube (probably a copy of home VHS): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezekuICeYlg&list=PLSpG6jj23Vgoy7WF1RlivWVCozM-kUeu8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezekuICeYlg&list=PLSpG6jj23V... Watched with my father growing up, may even have some home copies myself.
pixl97 2y ago
>is laughably out of control ridiculous at points I mean this is just American politics in general.
- jjtheblunt 2y ago
  It's a show specifically about MI5 in Britain.

scrumper 2y ago

That was a brilliant show. Not just because of Gary Oldman. Well-drawn characters throughout. I've just started season 3 so no spoilers please :)

JackFr 2y ago
Gary Oldman was a lot of it. I had read and enjoyed the first two books. After the first couple of episodes I had to admit I was watching it for Gary Oldman more than anything else. I'd watch just a supercut of him expressing disdain for and disappointment with his subordinates.
rmcpherson 2y ago
If you enjoy Slow Horses, I highly recommend the book series it’s based on. I’m not sure if Mick Herron wrote the books with Gary Oldman in mind, but it’s the perfect Oldman character nonetheless. The show is quite a faithful adaptation of the books, even down to some lines. Excellent review of Oldman in the 3rd season: https://defector.com/gary-oldman-is-gross-and-loving-it?giftLink=86f731f481cfdbc26b624a3bc57829cb https://defector.com/gary-oldman-is-gross-and-loving-it?gift...

4rt 2y ago

Sandbaggers is still up there as one of the best, I rewatched it last week.

mayd 2y ago
I am English, and old enough to have seen "Sandbaggers". I don't know how I never heard of this show until I found the complete series on Youtube a few months ago. Now I am enjoying viewing it for the first time.

Barrin92 2y ago

>Brits don't insult your intelligence too greatly in their spook shows; the American variety always involves some sort of super-human characters. This is why I could never get into House of Cards, it's just so over the top compared to something like Borgen which for me to this day is still one of the best political dramas ever made, also sadly went somewhat under the radar especially across the pond.

Karellen 2y ago
Did you check out the original UK House of Cards? Worth catching if you can find it.
DrFalkyn 2y ago
It wasn't any over the top than the original. It mostly just followed The BBC production almost to the letter, except with US spin. Until Season 4?. Whenever the re-election campaign started. Joel Kinnaman, while a great actor (loved him in Altered Carbon) was a massive miscast as a plausible candidate for the GOP. Mostly due to youth. And the last season was a Game of Thrones-level utter disaster.
- croisillon 2y ago
  except it made more sense Francis Urquhart being Conservative than Frank Underwood being Democrat
- adhamsalama 2y ago
  This is the first time I see a fellow Altered Carbon fan in the wild.
  - 0cf8612b2e1e 2y ago
    I thought it was a great standalone show. What I found unforgivable were the underlying plot changes vs the books. The Last Envoy? What? That did not even become a plot point (at least in season 1, I bailed pretty early in S2). Also, Envoys are terrorists and not the ultimate-special ops forces?

roywiggins 2y ago

The latest season got a bit silly at the end, but still entertaining.

fransje26 2y ago

> Brits don't insult your intelligence too greatly in their [..] shows That's a very way to express that idea. I'll be reusing that, if you don't mind.. :-) I've always expressed it more crudely as having the feeling of being forcefully lobotomized by the producers..

darksim905 2y ago
As in, British shows don't necessarily explain or show everything? I'm a bit lost here.
- jijijijij 2y ago
  Well, looks like British television isn't for you.
- fransje26 2y ago
  As in: those shows don't insult your intelligence by presenting something impossible or untruthful as a fact, and by assuming that the viewer will be too intellectually challenged to question anything spoon fed to him. You'll know when you see a show or a broadcast that gives you the impression your brain is leaking out of your ears.