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Here are my personal principals: 1. Don't use too many thumb buttons, especially at odd angles, they just make my thumbs hurt after too much typing. 2. Don't

Here are my personal principals: 1. Don't use too many thumb buttons, especially at odd angles, they just make my thumbs hurt after too much typing. 2. Don't use layers for any frequently used buttons, having to keep a button held for a while frequently just leads to more pain. 3. Function keys are mandatory. They aren't used frequently enough that having them in a "far" location is a problem, but when I do use them it is great that they exist (and don't require some strange layer combination press). 4. Home/End/PgUp/PgDown/Delete are all mandatory and should be somewhere near the (also mandatory) cursor keys and a shift key. Not sure how people survive programming without these buttons ;)

bloopernova 2y ago
Your points sound like my daily driver keyboard might work: https://www.keychron.com/products/keychron-q10-alice-layout-qmk-custom-mechanical-keyboard https://www.keychron.com/products/keychron-q10-alice-layout-...
goosedragons 2y ago
How are you doing layers? I have zero pain problems holding the delete key (on my Kinesis Advantage) to shift into my second layer for things like (,),{,}. It's way less pain then the using a typical keyboard layout. Hell it's easier than actual Shift. I think your other principles are pretty personal. I obviously never use delete. Rarely use function keys or home/end/etc. I use cursor keys a bunch but the Kinesis has those in a spot I like.
- Adverblessly 2y ago
  > How are you doing layers? With my thumb, since I'd need the other fingers to reach the actual buttons on the layer (usually). Sadly, this breaks my other principals so it doesn't work well for me. Not sure where you delete key is, but I guess it might work well with a pinky key instead (like I can use ctrl+something), but I don't really have a key like that I'd be willing to give up :) > I think your other principles are pretty personal. Very much so! Which is why the first sentence of my comment was "Here are my personal principals", emphasis on "personal" :)
  - goosedragons 2y ago
    Delete is on the left thumb cluster on the Kinesis Advantage. Would it be better if it was something like a toggle like Caps Lock?
cranium 2y ago
I found that layer on thumb + cursor keys on home row is really pleasing to use. It's like having a better HJKL working in all programs. See https://github.com/FrameworkComputer/qmk_firmware/tree/master/keyboards/preonic/keymaps/cranium#raise https://github.com/FrameworkComputer/qmk_firmware/tree/maste...
- riversflow 2y ago
  Yes! I have a layer accessible by a press and hold on my keyboard (mostly qwerty layout) that gives me arrow keys under FDSE, PgUp/Down and Home/End on 4,R,5,T. It also has custom chords of ctrl + shift, ctrl, alt+shift, alt on the Tab, Capslock, Q, A keys. Really useful.
  - mcswell 2y ago
    Sounds similar to s.t. I did. Did you do this on Windows or Linux?
samatman 2y ago
I love thumb clusters. But I have large hands. The great thing about the Cambrian explosion of mechanical keyboards is that people can find a layout which works for them, mentally and physiologically.
- Adverblessly 2y ago
  I have large hands as well (and proportionally long thumbs as well I think). I think it is just that my thumbs don't really "like" the rotations required to reach all the keys in the cluster. It also doesn't help that pressing with the thumb ends up being a "sideways" press, which is not a natural direction for the thumb to go.
CarVac 2y ago
1. More thumb buttons = more better, only if they are placed well (extremely close to the bottom row of the alpha keys. 2. Layers are fine for frequently used keys if activated by the thumb. I have backspace, delete, numbers (home row), symbols, punctuation, and the f keys on layers. 3. Yes. 4. Vim is the answer.
- mcswell 2y ago
  Re your #4 (Vim), and the original commenter's #4 that cursor keys etc. were absolutely necessary: Since around 1990, I have re-mapped the Control keys on my keyboard to be cursor keys, using more or less the Vim arrangement (but not of course moded, except that the ^Q key toggles selection). There was also an article I saw in the past six months about how to convert they keyboard completely to Vim-style, i.e. it was moded. I forget whether it was for Linux or for Windows.
mcswell 2y ago
Original article: "Do you ever type function keys? I do not." Your comment: "Function keys are mandatory." I'm in the "I never use function keys" camp, in fact I'd prefer a keyboard without them, since every once in awhile I accidently hit one and strange things happen (like the menu bar goes away). I posted that (I think on the comments to s.t. at Ars Technica) and was severely downvoted. So I guess your camp is bigger than mine... But I still don't know why anyone uses function keys.

bloopernova 2y ago

Your points sound like my daily driver keyboard might work: https://www.keychron.com/products/keychron-q10-alice-layout-qmk-custom-mechanical-keyboard https://www.keychron.com/products/keychron-q10-alice-layout-...

goosedragons 2y ago

How are you doing layers? I have zero pain problems holding the delete key (on my Kinesis Advantage) to shift into my second layer for things like (,),{,}. It's way less pain then the using a typical keyboard layout. Hell it's easier than actual Shift. I think your other principles are pretty personal. I obviously never use delete. Rarely use function keys or home/end/etc. I use cursor keys a bunch but the Kinesis has those in a spot I like.

Adverblessly 2y ago
> How are you doing layers? With my thumb, since I'd need the other fingers to reach the actual buttons on the layer (usually). Sadly, this breaks my other principals so it doesn't work well for me. Not sure where you delete key is, but I guess it might work well with a pinky key instead (like I can use ctrl+something), but I don't really have a key like that I'd be willing to give up :) > I think your other principles are pretty personal. Very much so! Which is why the first sentence of my comment was "Here are my personal principals", emphasis on "personal" :)
- goosedragons 2y ago
  Delete is on the left thumb cluster on the Kinesis Advantage. Would it be better if it was something like a toggle like Caps Lock?

cranium 2y ago

I found that layer on thumb + cursor keys on home row is really pleasing to use. It's like having a better HJKL working in all programs. See https://github.com/FrameworkComputer/qmk_firmware/tree/master/keyboards/preonic/keymaps/cranium#raise https://github.com/FrameworkComputer/qmk_firmware/tree/maste...

riversflow 2y ago
Yes! I have a layer accessible by a press and hold on my keyboard (mostly qwerty layout) that gives me arrow keys under FDSE, PgUp/Down and Home/End on 4,R,5,T. It also has custom chords of ctrl + shift, ctrl, alt+shift, alt on the Tab, Capslock, Q, A keys. Really useful.
- mcswell 2y ago
  Sounds similar to s.t. I did. Did you do this on Windows or Linux?

samatman 2y ago

I love thumb clusters. But I have large hands. The great thing about the Cambrian explosion of mechanical keyboards is that people can find a layout which works for them, mentally and physiologically.

Adverblessly 2y ago
I have large hands as well (and proportionally long thumbs as well I think). I think it is just that my thumbs don't really "like" the rotations required to reach all the keys in the cluster. It also doesn't help that pressing with the thumb ends up being a "sideways" press, which is not a natural direction for the thumb to go.

CarVac 2y ago

1. More thumb buttons = more better, only if they are placed well (extremely close to the bottom row of the alpha keys. 2. Layers are fine for frequently used keys if activated by the thumb. I have backspace, delete, numbers (home row), symbols, punctuation, and the f keys on layers. 3. Yes. 4. Vim is the answer.

mcswell 2y ago
Re your #4 (Vim), and the original commenter's #4 that cursor keys etc. were absolutely necessary: Since around 1990, I have re-mapped the Control keys on my keyboard to be cursor keys, using more or less the Vim arrangement (but not of course moded, except that the ^Q key toggles selection). There was also an article I saw in the past six months about how to convert they keyboard completely to Vim-style, i.e. it was moded. I forget whether it was for Linux or for Windows.

mcswell 2y ago

Original article: "Do you ever type function keys? I do not." Your comment: "Function keys are mandatory." I'm in the "I never use function keys" camp, in fact I'd prefer a keyboard without them, since every once in awhile I accidently hit one and strange things happen (like the menu bar goes away). I posted that (I think on the comments to s.t. at Ars Technica) and was severely downvoted. So I guess your camp is bigger than mine... But I still don't know why anyone uses function keys.