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One of the requirements for markets is a system of law. A system of law definitionally reduces the freedom in a system. There is no such thing as an “absolute”

One of the requirements for markets is a system of law. A system of law definitionally reduces the freedom in a system. There is no such thing as an “absolute” free market. I think once you’ve understood why that’s true for markets, you’ll understand it’s exactly the same for free speech. Free speech absolutism is an incoherent stance.

_heimdall 2y ago
The definition of markets is extremely simple/vague [1]. Sure we have added laws on top to make more people more comfortable participating, but where exactly is the fundamental requirement for laws to allow people to exchange goods? With regards to speech, you simply just can't have free speech if there are limits. You aren't free to say whatever you want, and there's nothing wrong with that view. I totally understand why hate speech makes people uncomfortable and why some (a majority?) think it should be banned. Those people have just come across a reason why they don't actually agree that free speech is a fundamental right, instead preferring some speech to be restricted if a majority of people disagree with it. The argument that you can have free speech with limitations is incoherent and goes against the entire concept. Finding a different term for some middle ground of partially regulated speech is totally reasonable, but claiming that its free is a misuse of the words. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_(economics) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_(economics)
randomdata 2y ago
> There is no such thing as an “absolute” free market. A free market is typically defined as a situation where interested parties can exchange anything they so wish at any price. "Big-brained" humans like to create all kinds rules which may make markets amongst humans unlikely to ever be free in practice, but it seems apparent that other animals regularly exhibit free markets. In what way are they not "absolute"?
- _heimdall 2y ago
  Related to this, I can't quite see how we would have created laws to allow for markets before markets existed. Someone, or a group of people, would have had to envision an entirely new system called "markets" and immediately realized that laws were needed before goods could be exchanged.

_heimdall 2y ago

The definition of markets is extremely simple/vague [1]. Sure we have added laws on top to make more people more comfortable participating, but where exactly is the fundamental requirement for laws to allow people to exchange goods? With regards to speech, you simply just can't have free speech if there are limits. You aren't free to say whatever you want, and there's nothing wrong with that view. I totally understand why hate speech makes people uncomfortable and why some (a majority?) think it should be banned. Those people have just come across a reason why they don't actually agree that free speech is a fundamental right, instead preferring some speech to be restricted if a majority of people disagree with it. The argument that you can have free speech with limitations is incoherent and goes against the entire concept. Finding a different term for some middle ground of partially regulated speech is totally reasonable, but claiming that its free is a misuse of the words. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_(economics) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_(economics)

randomdata 2y ago

> There is no such thing as an “absolute” free market. A free market is typically defined as a situation where interested parties can exchange anything they so wish at any price. "Big-brained" humans like to create all kinds rules which may make markets amongst humans unlikely to ever be free in practice, but it seems apparent that other animals regularly exhibit free markets. In what way are they not "absolute"?

_heimdall 2y ago
Related to this, I can't quite see how we would have created laws to allow for markets before markets existed. Someone, or a group of people, would have had to envision an entirely new system called "markets" and immediately realized that laws were needed before goods could be exchanged.