4 ms·

I'm slowly getting into it, though I definitely didn't start early (been coding since 2009). Although funnily enough, I do remember using Vim a couple of times

I'm slowly getting into it, though I definitely didn't start early (been coding since 2009). Although funnily enough, I do remember using Vim a couple of times back when I was 10 years old, on my 95 Packard Bell. For me, hjkl for directional keys is extremely difficult to remember. I think because in the spoken word we say "up and down", not "down and up", so my brain wants j to be up and k to be down. My muscle memory really fights me on that.

serial_dev 2y ago
Remapping them is always an option (though it obviously has its disadvantages).
spiderice 2y ago
It surprises me how few people are aware of https://vim-adventures.com https://vim-adventures.com Beat that game and hjkl will feel just as natural as arrow keys, and so will a ton of vim commands. I think the creator does himself a disservice by selling 6 month licenses rather than lifetime. But 6 months is more than enough to play through it. I think it only took me a couple days.
- bravetraveler 2y ago
  Agree on the disservice; I'm aware of this and many other gamified ways to learn 'vim'. I'd be more likely to buy/support lifetime over six months, or really, any interval. This is a largely-unchanging editor. Why drag out this relationship? Once I learn the things, it's on me to put them to practice/make it real. Six months is lifetime, if you haven't mastered it by then I'm not sure you will. I can't say whether or not this would be more effective than others, I haven't played it. The proposition of buying a license at all is a bit of a hard sell. Again, there are a lot of free things to give me the info and gamified experience. Perhaps not as nice, but this needs to do a bit more to sell me than look pretty. The hard part is aided by several other freely available games, yet experience of all kinds still teaches. I have a feeling it's more motivation or personal choice, than game(s), when it comes to why my arrow-key usage persists. Then again, I also don't use services for languages. I'd rather read. A lot.
  - bravetraveler 2y ago
    To be clear, I'm not intending six months to be some sort of limit. I know it seems elitist but my intent is the exact opposite. Someone willing to be so dedicated that they'll invest both money and time, while not falling back to old habits, will most likely succeed without the 'payment' part. Anyone should be able to sit down and dedicate themselves to self-improvement or entertainment for free. It's all very arbitrary. Not all six months are equal. Not all editing is equal. I edit more than any healthy person should, is it good or bad? Who knows.
  - spiderice 2y ago
    I haven’t seen any Vim gamification that is anywhere near the quality of vim-adventures. But if you know of any I’d love to check them out.
    - bravetraveler 2y ago
      This is more well put together than any I recall! I don't say any of this to diss it; were I new, I'd consider it. Presenting a subscription is just a little off-putting. How deep does the hole go, you know? The active side of learning is one thing. The game you choose, the manuals you read, or whatever. The other side - what happens outside of that, both actively and passively (with time), is important too. I want to stress that. It's easier to build good habits than break bad ones, and the lines between aren't clear. The learning aid doesn't matter if you aren't dedicated to the teachings by putting them into practice while editing. In fact, habits you have unrelated to editing can hurt your editing! I didn't want to turn this into a spat saying "this thing" or "that one". It defeats the purpose of my message: the learning aid doesn't matter so much, dedicating yourself to it does. Disclaimer: I'm biased. I learned before gamification was so readily available. I can't objectively judge them completely The game I played was called "painstakingly edit a lot and look at a cheat sheet until the bones remember". Self-enforcing learning model! Both good and bad, again - habits.
- emgeee 2y ago
  +1 to vim-adventures, excellent game and well worth the money if you're a committed power user
lambdaba 2y ago
Arrow keys suck so much on most laptops, that I do everything to avoid them, I use Vim mode plugins in my browsers. There's even a global Vi mode available for macOS, I'm sure something similar is possible on Windows with autohotkey, not to mention Linux.
- Narishma 2y ago
  They only started sucking in the last decade or so when they stopped making them in the inverted T shape.
  - lambdaba 2y ago
    Sure, but I can't use an X220 anymore. Man I soooo wish I could have a laptop with the hardware of the Mac and the keyboard of an old ThinkPad (with better aesthetics). Unfortunately, not so many people seem to want this.
Vegenoid 2y ago
I couldn't get used to it either, so I've rebound it so that IJKL is up/left/down/right (like WASD) and H is for insert mode. Yes, it means that vim mode in other programs isn't as immediately intuitive, and ones that don't allow for much rebinding aren't very nice to use, but for me that doesn't matter as much as having something that feels good in the software that I spend almost all of my time in.

serial_dev 2y ago

Remapping them is always an option (though it obviously has its disadvantages).

spiderice 2y ago

It surprises me how few people are aware of https://vim-adventures.com https://vim-adventures.com Beat that game and hjkl will feel just as natural as arrow keys, and so will a ton of vim commands. I think the creator does himself a disservice by selling 6 month licenses rather than lifetime. But 6 months is more than enough to play through it. I think it only took me a couple days.

bravetraveler 2y ago
Agree on the disservice; I'm aware of this and many other gamified ways to learn 'vim'. I'd be more likely to buy/support lifetime over six months, or really, any interval. This is a largely-unchanging editor. Why drag out this relationship? Once I learn the things, it's on me to put them to practice/make it real. Six months is lifetime, if you haven't mastered it by then I'm not sure you will. I can't say whether or not this would be more effective than others, I haven't played it. The proposition of buying a license at all is a bit of a hard sell. Again, there are a lot of free things to give me the info and gamified experience. Perhaps not as nice, but this needs to do a bit more to sell me than look pretty. The hard part is aided by several other freely available games, yet experience of all kinds still teaches. I have a feeling it's more motivation or personal choice, than game(s), when it comes to why my arrow-key usage persists. Then again, I also don't use services for languages. I'd rather read. A lot.
- bravetraveler 2y ago
  To be clear, I'm not intending six months to be some sort of limit. I know it seems elitist but my intent is the exact opposite. Someone willing to be so dedicated that they'll invest both money and time, while not falling back to old habits, will most likely succeed without the 'payment' part. Anyone should be able to sit down and dedicate themselves to self-improvement or entertainment for free. It's all very arbitrary. Not all six months are equal. Not all editing is equal. I edit more than any healthy person should, is it good or bad? Who knows.
- spiderice 2y ago
  I haven’t seen any Vim gamification that is anywhere near the quality of vim-adventures. But if you know of any I’d love to check them out.
  - bravetraveler 2y ago
    This is more well put together than any I recall! I don't say any of this to diss it; were I new, I'd consider it. Presenting a subscription is just a little off-putting. How deep does the hole go, you know? The active side of learning is one thing. The game you choose, the manuals you read, or whatever. The other side - what happens outside of that, both actively and passively (with time), is important too. I want to stress that. It's easier to build good habits than break bad ones, and the lines between aren't clear. The learning aid doesn't matter if you aren't dedicated to the teachings by putting them into practice while editing. In fact, habits you have unrelated to editing can hurt your editing! I didn't want to turn this into a spat saying "this thing" or "that one". It defeats the purpose of my message: the learning aid doesn't matter so much, dedicating yourself to it does. Disclaimer: I'm biased. I learned before gamification was so readily available. I can't objectively judge them completely The game I played was called "painstakingly edit a lot and look at a cheat sheet until the bones remember". Self-enforcing learning model! Both good and bad, again - habits.
emgeee 2y ago
+1 to vim-adventures, excellent game and well worth the money if you're a committed power user

lambdaba 2y ago

Arrow keys suck so much on most laptops, that I do everything to avoid them, I use Vim mode plugins in my browsers. There's even a global Vi mode available for macOS, I'm sure something similar is possible on Windows with autohotkey, not to mention Linux.

Narishma 2y ago
They only started sucking in the last decade or so when they stopped making them in the inverted T shape.
- lambdaba 2y ago
  Sure, but I can't use an X220 anymore. Man I soooo wish I could have a laptop with the hardware of the Mac and the keyboard of an old ThinkPad (with better aesthetics). Unfortunately, not so many people seem to want this.

Vegenoid 2y ago

I couldn't get used to it either, so I've rebound it so that IJKL is up/left/down/right (like WASD) and H is for insert mode. Yes, it means that vim mode in other programs isn't as immediately intuitive, and ones that don't allow for much rebinding aren't very nice to use, but for me that doesn't matter as much as having something that feels good in the software that I spend almost all of my time in.