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I don’t entirely agree with the closing statement, simply because asking police to ‘just police harder’ doesn’t involve breaking any fundamental mathematical la

by taneq 3y ago

I don’t entirely agree with the closing statement, simply because asking police to ‘just police harder’ doesn’t involve breaking any fundamental mathematical laws, and so isn’t on the same level as asking cryptographers to ‘just nerd harder’ and create encryption that’s always breakable by ‘the good guys’ but never by ‘the bad guys’.

BLKNSLVR 3y ago
I actually agree with the statement, as the feeling I get is that police have been doing the opposite (ie. policing less hard) instead relying on 'the wonders of technology' such that the actual attributes of good police and investigators is atrophying with disuse. Surveillance technologies are providing a tidal wave of additional data points at a rate that's too fast for even humans of average intelligence (if not inclined towards technology, mathematics, or statistics) to be able to properly comprehend the nuances and gaps and potential for counter-evidence. They have far fewer pieces of the puzzle than they think, but appear to conduct themselves with the bravado and arrogance of having solved the entire thing. "Evidence for" gets their stats up, "evidence against" helps the guilty escape justice...
- taneq 3y ago
  Goodheart‘s law in action. When conviction count becomes a target, it ceases to be a measure of the quality of the policing work.
- brokenmachine 3y ago
  >Surveillance technologies are providing a tidal wave of additional data points at a rate that's too fast for even humans of average intelligence They can, and probably are, using AI to "police harder" as well. Even metadata can be very powerful evidence when combined with AI. https://www.youtube.com/live/ysi1aIY4NkU&t=433 https://www.youtube.com/live/ysi1aIY4NkU&t=433 ASIO chief Mike Burgess (youtube transcript manually corrected, hopefully I didn't miss anything): >I can confirm that ASIO has been using artificial intelligence for many years now it's not replacing our people, it's augmenting and assisting them. As one example the vast amounts of data being produced every day means that finding a critical piece of intelligence is less like finding a needle in a haystack than looking for a needle in a field of haystacks. AI makes that process easier and faster, it can identify worrying patterns and relationships in minutes and hours, rather than weeks and months. >Unlike our adversaries, Australia's use of artificial intelligence is strictly controlled and governed by ethical controls. We put humans at the center of our decision-making. While a process might be data driven and Technology enabled it will always be human lead. >AI is a case study in inherent tensions between technology and security. While new technologies can deliver rich evidence they can also be exploited. As I said earlier terrorists and spies are early adopters. We see the same thing with end-to-end encryption I'm not sure what he means by "AI can be exploited" here, in the context of when it's being used to filter all the surveillance data.
__s 3y ago
the thing about "nerd harder" is that policy makers will pay the liar/fool who claims they can do what others say can't be done, thinking "here now is someone competent"
- brokenmachine 3y ago
  "If your end-to-end encryption won't provide me a backdoor, I'll find one that does!" Relevant quote: "The laws of mathematics are very commendable, but the only law that applies in Australia is the law of Australia" - ex Australian Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull

by taneq 3y ago

BLKNSLVR 3y ago

I actually agree with the statement, as the feeling I get is that police have been doing the opposite (ie. policing less hard) instead relying on 'the wonders of technology' such that the actual attributes of good police and investigators is atrophying with disuse. Surveillance technologies are providing a tidal wave of additional data points at a rate that's too fast for even humans of average intelligence (if not inclined towards technology, mathematics, or statistics) to be able to properly comprehend the nuances and gaps and potential for counter-evidence. They have far fewer pieces of the puzzle than they think, but appear to conduct themselves with the bravado and arrogance of having solved the entire thing. "Evidence for" gets their stats up, "evidence against" helps the guilty escape justice...

taneq 3y ago
Goodheart‘s law in action. When conviction count becomes a target, it ceases to be a measure of the quality of the policing work.
brokenmachine 3y ago
>Surveillance technologies are providing a tidal wave of additional data points at a rate that's too fast for even humans of average intelligence They can, and probably are, using AI to "police harder" as well. Even metadata can be very powerful evidence when combined with AI. https://www.youtube.com/live/ysi1aIY4NkU&t=433 https://www.youtube.com/live/ysi1aIY4NkU&t=433 ASIO chief Mike Burgess (youtube transcript manually corrected, hopefully I didn't miss anything): >I can confirm that ASIO has been using artificial intelligence for many years now it's not replacing our people, it's augmenting and assisting them. As one example the vast amounts of data being produced every day means that finding a critical piece of intelligence is less like finding a needle in a haystack than looking for a needle in a field of haystacks. AI makes that process easier and faster, it can identify worrying patterns and relationships in minutes and hours, rather than weeks and months. >Unlike our adversaries, Australia's use of artificial intelligence is strictly controlled and governed by ethical controls. We put humans at the center of our decision-making. While a process might be data driven and Technology enabled it will always be human lead. >AI is a case study in inherent tensions between technology and security. While new technologies can deliver rich evidence they can also be exploited. As I said earlier terrorists and spies are early adopters. We see the same thing with end-to-end encryption I'm not sure what he means by "AI can be exploited" here, in the context of when it's being used to filter all the surveillance data.

__s 3y ago

the thing about "nerd harder" is that policy makers will pay the liar/fool who claims they can do what others say can't be done, thinking "here now is someone competent"

brokenmachine 3y ago
"If your end-to-end encryption won't provide me a backdoor, I'll find one that does!" Relevant quote: "The laws of mathematics are very commendable, but the only law that applies in Australia is the law of Australia" - ex Australian Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull