4 ms·

> Apple has crippled iPadOS and consumers need the EU to force Apple to make moves that actually benefits the consumer I won’t go into whether that’s true, but

> Apple has crippled iPadOS and consumers need the EU to force Apple to make moves that actually benefits the consumer I won’t go into whether that’s true, but I don’t think the EU has any objection against companies selling (or attempting to sell) bad products. The EU is acting because they think companies effectively do not have the choice of going around Apple to reach their customers, and that is limiting competition.

Seanambers 3y ago
[flagged]
- cesaref 3y ago
  linux
  - rijoja 3y ago
    arm
- piva00 3y ago
  You like to beat this drum, it's not the first time I read it coming from your username but... It's not the reality, while you ignore companies like Ericsson and ASLM providing basic tenets for high-end manufacturing of network equipment and chips. ARM used to be in the EU until Brexit. No, there are no flashy Amazons, Googles or Apples (or more frivolous and damaging stuff like AirBnbs, Ubers, etc.) from the EU but that doesn't mean it has lost the hardware and software dimension, if you meant "consumer hardware/software" I could give you a little more credit but since you've been beating the same dead horse for a long while on your anti-EU comments in HN it's pretty hard to start any meaningful conversation to understand your point of view. You don't like the EU, that's ok, just try to bring more meaningful arguments than this childish us-vs-them that seems to crop up from you quite constantly when Europe is talked about around here.
  - emjoes1 3y ago
    The EU - "it would be a shame if something happened to your business model". idk it sounds like the EU is becoming more like organized crime in how they act - "and hey we need you to make a way to break E2E encryption so we can monitor".
    - jongle 3y ago
      Their business model can be whatever they like outside the EU. To do business inside the EU then you follow EU law, or you leave the EU market. Apple doesn't have to do business here, they can leave if they think the regulatory environment is not favourable for their business needs. The vast majority of people here won't care much or at all.
    - piva00 3y ago
      Every government does this, it's a non-sequitur. The USA imposes tariffs to protect its companies/market (Boeing vs Embraer/Bombardier, Chinese steel and EVs, etc.) all the time. If you want to do business in the EU you follow EU laws, you don't need to do business in the EU if you don't want to, it's your choice to abide by them or not. The incentive to participate is in the EU being a huge and rich market.
      - shortsunblack 3y ago
        And arguably U.S. has more protectionist trade policy than EU. It is in a trade war with China, it has always historically preferenced American auto makers (chicken tax) and it even goes so far as to discriminate its dear allies with Inflation Reduction Act. Not to speak of "Buy American" laws which there's multiple (granted EU is "granted" "American" status under these laws -- but that can change at any time). Europe's protectionism is mainly in foodstocks. And that protectionism is in part motivated by real reasons -- that of food safety (American cows injected by Bovine somatotropin, a harmful to humans, growth hormone, etc) or heritage (protected geographical status). Conversely, Europe has a very liberal taxation regime for American corpos. That's why Ireland is the tax haven it is (same for Luxembourg and some others).
    - 3y ago
theoreticalmal 3y ago
I agree with your description of the EU’s thinking, but I can’t see how they think it’s a valid argument. It’s like a company opening a drive-thru restaurant and then complaining that car manufacturers are gatekeeping them from their customers
- planb 3y ago
  Imagine there are only 2 brands of cars, and one of them disables the engine as soon as the driver wants to enter your drive-thru. Imagine also that this car brand operates a chain of drive-thru restaurants that their cars will happily visit. Now extend this scenario with the fact that there are more and more types of food you can only get through drive-thru restaurants and old fashioned restaurants don't offer these anymore (because most people now expect all food to be provided by drive-thrus).

Seanambers 3y ago

[flagged]

cesaref 3y ago
linux
- rijoja 3y ago
  arm
piva00 3y ago
You like to beat this drum, it's not the first time I read it coming from your username but... It's not the reality, while you ignore companies like Ericsson and ASLM providing basic tenets for high-end manufacturing of network equipment and chips. ARM used to be in the EU until Brexit. No, there are no flashy Amazons, Googles or Apples (or more frivolous and damaging stuff like AirBnbs, Ubers, etc.) from the EU but that doesn't mean it has lost the hardware and software dimension, if you meant "consumer hardware/software" I could give you a little more credit but since you've been beating the same dead horse for a long while on your anti-EU comments in HN it's pretty hard to start any meaningful conversation to understand your point of view. You don't like the EU, that's ok, just try to bring more meaningful arguments than this childish us-vs-them that seems to crop up from you quite constantly when Europe is talked about around here.
- emjoes1 3y ago
  The EU - "it would be a shame if something happened to your business model". idk it sounds like the EU is becoming more like organized crime in how they act - "and hey we need you to make a way to break E2E encryption so we can monitor".
  - jongle 3y ago
    Their business model can be whatever they like outside the EU. To do business inside the EU then you follow EU law, or you leave the EU market. Apple doesn't have to do business here, they can leave if they think the regulatory environment is not favourable for their business needs. The vast majority of people here won't care much or at all.
  - piva00 3y ago
    Every government does this, it's a non-sequitur. The USA imposes tariffs to protect its companies/market (Boeing vs Embraer/Bombardier, Chinese steel and EVs, etc.) all the time. If you want to do business in the EU you follow EU laws, you don't need to do business in the EU if you don't want to, it's your choice to abide by them or not. The incentive to participate is in the EU being a huge and rich market.
    - shortsunblack 3y ago
      And arguably U.S. has more protectionist trade policy than EU. It is in a trade war with China, it has always historically preferenced American auto makers (chicken tax) and it even goes so far as to discriminate its dear allies with Inflation Reduction Act. Not to speak of "Buy American" laws which there's multiple (granted EU is "granted" "American" status under these laws -- but that can change at any time). Europe's protectionism is mainly in foodstocks. And that protectionism is in part motivated by real reasons -- that of food safety (American cows injected by Bovine somatotropin, a harmful to humans, growth hormone, etc) or heritage (protected geographical status). Conversely, Europe has a very liberal taxation regime for American corpos. That's why Ireland is the tax haven it is (same for Luxembourg and some others).
  - 3y ago

theoreticalmal 3y ago

I agree with your description of the EU’s thinking, but I can’t see how they think it’s a valid argument. It’s like a company opening a drive-thru restaurant and then complaining that car manufacturers are gatekeeping them from their customers

planb 3y ago
Imagine there are only 2 brands of cars, and one of them disables the engine as soon as the driver wants to enter your drive-thru. Imagine also that this car brand operates a chain of drive-thru restaurants that their cars will happily visit. Now extend this scenario with the fact that there are more and more types of food you can only get through drive-thru restaurants and old fashioned restaurants don't offer these anymore (because most people now expect all food to be provided by drive-thrus).