5 ms·

> what capitalism wants to avoid is putting "money" in with "power" Sorry but this is plain out wrong. Under a capitalist system money IS power, as it is funda

by pvdoom 2y ago

> what capitalism wants to avoid is putting "money" in with "power" Sorry but this is plain out wrong. Under a capitalist system money IS power, as it is fundamental for survival, and that people with money are the ones that tend to have disproportionate amount of leverage both over the government and individuals. Under capitalism the government mostly exists to protect the interests of businesses and property holders, a lot more than say the common person on the street.

robertlagrant 2y ago
No, power is power. If you're a company, you don't have the power to set rules, or lock people in boxes, or (in some places) kill people. The state has power. Capitalism says that companies don't get power. They need money to survive, but that doesn't mean money is power. Money is money. > Under capitalism the government mostly exists to protect the interests of businesses and property holders No, that's not right. That might sometimes happen, but it's in no way fundamental. Under capitalism the government sets and enforces the rules, and provides currency and other bits and bobs to let people trade fairly and at a minimum standard.
- pvdoom 2y ago
  > you don't have the power to set rules, or lock people in boxes, or (in some places) kill people Quite the opposite - companies literally set rules all the time. How the work should be done, who should do what, who the boss is, when are you allowed to leave, etc. Being obliged to be in an office is tantamount to being locked in a box for a considerable amount of your time - and you don't get to choose which part, so you end up spending the vast majority of your precious time locked in a box working for someone, because otherwise, and here we come to the last part: Companies have the power to ruin livelihoods, cause homelessness and death, etc. The government of capitalist countries creates that system, and has done so historically, so that the system above is upheld. And the government works mostly in favour of businesses and business owners as a whole, because it is made of said people. You are obliged to go to work for someone else or face starvation, exactly because this is a choice that was made and continues to be made by governments in favour of businesses. You are obliged to pay exorbitant amount of money to afford basic necessities. etc. etc. > but that doesn't mean money is power. Money is money. Exactly the opposite - money is pure power. Money is literally congealed social relationships. With little money you can't do much. With a lot of money, you go golfing with senators and lawmakers like I go for Friday beers with my mates. With a little money you're forced to continue working that deadend job to make ends meet. With a lot of money you can have a yacht bigger than the house of the person in the previous sentence (oh, wait, that person doesn't actually own the house)

by pvdoom 2y ago

robertlagrant 2y ago

No, power is power. If you're a company, you don't have the power to set rules, or lock people in boxes, or (in some places) kill people. The state has power. Capitalism says that companies don't get power. They need money to survive, but that doesn't mean money is power. Money is money. > Under capitalism the government mostly exists to protect the interests of businesses and property holders No, that's not right. That might sometimes happen, but it's in no way fundamental. Under capitalism the government sets and enforces the rules, and provides currency and other bits and bobs to let people trade fairly and at a minimum standard.

pvdoom 2y ago
> you don't have the power to set rules, or lock people in boxes, or (in some places) kill people Quite the opposite - companies literally set rules all the time. How the work should be done, who should do what, who the boss is, when are you allowed to leave, etc. Being obliged to be in an office is tantamount to being locked in a box for a considerable amount of your time - and you don't get to choose which part, so you end up spending the vast majority of your precious time locked in a box working for someone, because otherwise, and here we come to the last part: Companies have the power to ruin livelihoods, cause homelessness and death, etc. The government of capitalist countries creates that system, and has done so historically, so that the system above is upheld. And the government works mostly in favour of businesses and business owners as a whole, because it is made of said people. You are obliged to go to work for someone else or face starvation, exactly because this is a choice that was made and continues to be made by governments in favour of businesses. You are obliged to pay exorbitant amount of money to afford basic necessities. etc. etc. > but that doesn't mean money is power. Money is money. Exactly the opposite - money is pure power. Money is literally congealed social relationships. With little money you can't do much. With a lot of money, you go golfing with senators and lawmakers like I go for Friday beers with my mates. With a little money you're forced to continue working that deadend job to make ends meet. With a lot of money you can have a yacht bigger than the house of the person in the previous sentence (oh, wait, that person doesn't actually own the house)