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People are wondering what is going on and all you're saying is I don't know either, I haven't read anything except the first paragraph of the article, but maybe

by depr 2y ago

People are wondering what is going on and all you're saying is I don't know either, I haven't read anything except the first paragraph of the article, but maybe it's this thing. What purpose does that serve except to further muddy the waters, making the situation even harder to understand?

FeepingCreature 2y ago
It is a fair point that there isn't necessarily actually anything important going on. The onus should be on the article to convince people that something is happening and what it is. Where there's smoke, there may just be someone blowing smoke.
- depr 2y ago
  I don't think so. The article is probably intended for the Nix community, so the author doesn't need to convince HN that something is going on. If as an outsider you are interested then you need to look into it yourself, the community has no obligation to make their internal conflicts legible to the outside world. As an outsider myself, it certainly looks like something is going on as more than 20 Nixpkg maintainers left in a week: https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/issues?q=label%3A%228.has%3A+maintainer+removal%22+is%3Aclosed https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/issues?q=label%3A%228.has%3... It's fine to ask if someone can explain what is going on, it's a waste of everyone's time to say you have no clue and you haven't read anything and it's probably nonsense.
  - rijoja 2y ago
    Nice straw man there, my point is that he failed to instantiate any failures, so it seems very manipulative. He could have for instance have used that link to verify, and I wouldn't have been thought that it was weird that he said that people were fleeing, without providing proof. Since this post likely is geared towards engineers and scientifically minded people, and he is in fact calling for people to resign, I suppose so that he or she can take over, is sources and data really to much to ask for? If your calling for people to resign so that you can take over, which seems quite audacious to begin with, at least you should be able to clearly explain, where the people have failed, so that they can defend themselves.
rijoja 2y ago
What I am saying that if someone starts out with a lot of unsubstantiated and vaguely defined posturing with the conclusion that the leaders of one of the most hands down successful and interesting open source projects in recent years, they are being disingenuous to say the least. The purpose is to warn people so that they not fall for what sounds like really nice things, but that in effect just is nothing but empty words. Which I think is fairly evident if you read my _whole_ comment.

by depr 2y ago

FeepingCreature 2y ago

It is a fair point that there isn't necessarily actually anything important going on. The onus should be on the article to convince people that something is happening and what it is. Where there's smoke, there may just be someone blowing smoke.

depr 2y ago
I don't think so. The article is probably intended for the Nix community, so the author doesn't need to convince HN that something is going on. If as an outsider you are interested then you need to look into it yourself, the community has no obligation to make their internal conflicts legible to the outside world. As an outsider myself, it certainly looks like something is going on as more than 20 Nixpkg maintainers left in a week: https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/issues?q=label%3A%228.has%3A+maintainer+removal%22+is%3Aclosed https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/issues?q=label%3A%228.has%3... It's fine to ask if someone can explain what is going on, it's a waste of everyone's time to say you have no clue and you haven't read anything and it's probably nonsense.
- rijoja 2y ago
  Nice straw man there, my point is that he failed to instantiate any failures, so it seems very manipulative. He could have for instance have used that link to verify, and I wouldn't have been thought that it was weird that he said that people were fleeing, without providing proof. Since this post likely is geared towards engineers and scientifically minded people, and he is in fact calling for people to resign, I suppose so that he or she can take over, is sources and data really to much to ask for? If your calling for people to resign so that you can take over, which seems quite audacious to begin with, at least you should be able to clearly explain, where the people have failed, so that they can defend themselves.

rijoja 2y ago

What I am saying that if someone starts out with a lot of unsubstantiated and vaguely defined posturing with the conclusion that the leaders of one of the most hands down successful and interesting open source projects in recent years, they are being disingenuous to say the least. The purpose is to warn people so that they not fall for what sounds like really nice things, but that in effect just is nothing but empty words. Which I think is fairly evident if you read my _whole_ comment.