4 ms·

Not to be snarky but 2011 is yesterday for programming, no major shift. I'd imagine almost all code written there would be able to run today.

fragmede 3y ago
You've had a very different experience of the past 13 years if you've experienced no major shifts. Even the past year has had a whole big change with the advent of LLMs, nevermind the rise of the web, VSCode, typescript, rust, and more. In 2011, Java was on version 7. We're on 22 now in 2024. There have been some paradigm shifts in Java during that time. Streams (Java 8), Lambda expressions (Java 9), the var keyword (Java 10), Records (Java 14), switch and yield (Java 12/14), instanceof (Java 16). Functional programming over OOP; Cloud and microservices, emphasis on security, DevX, concurrency. Code written in 2011 still runs, but the world's changed around it.
- squigz 3y ago
  The rise of the web? In the past 13 years? Gosh does that make me feel old...
  - fragmede 3y ago
    Shit, I learned to program before there was Google.
    - xandrius 3y ago
      I studied OpenGL when all I could find was literally 1 tutorial on it and it was not in my native language.
    - brabel 3y ago
      Reminds of a random comment or tweet I read somewhere where the person said their young children just couldn't believe she was so old that she was born before Google existed :D they just couldn't believe her :D so cute.
  - bluenose69 3y ago
    I imagine some of us reading this learned to program before bitnet was a thing. Punched cards. Paper tape. Booting by entering a lot of binary numbers with toggle switches. Good times. Oh, and that ancient Fortran code? It still works and, if you can see patterns in arithmetic-if blocks, it still expresses clever algorithms elegantly.
- xandrius 3y ago
  What a world we must have lived in without VSCode, TS and rust, a truly undistinguishable one it seems.
- The_Colonel 3y ago
  > In 2011, Java was on version 7. We're on 22 now in 2024. In the IDE technology, the jump was even larger. In 2011, I was using Intellij 10, now I'm on version 2024. > There have been some paradigm shifts in Java during that time. Streams (Java 8), Lambda expressions (Java 9), the var keyword (Java 10), Records (Java 14), switch and yield (Java 12/14), instanceof (Java 16). The only listed Java feature which represented a paradigm shift was lambda expressions (which were released in v8, not v9), the rest are minor features.
  - twic 3y ago
    Streams had a pretty huge impact on how a lot of people write code. Also, lambdas came in in 8, not 9. Streams without lambdas would have been pretty painful!
    - layer8 3y ago
      There were streams-like libraries before Java 8. It’s lambdas that made them more practical.
- ecshafer 3y ago
  concurrency is on your list why? DL added concurrency to Java long before 2011.
  - 62951413 3y ago
    I remember using j.u.c in production back when it was still concurrent.jar. There were surprisingly many jobs in NYC/London circa 2006 if you had Core Java skills.
koito17 3y ago
In the Java world, sure. Other programming language ecosystems tend to have tons of churn. For an anecdote, every TypeScript project I find from 2021 or earlier is simply impossible to build nowadays, meanwhile the ClojureScript code I dealt with in a previous job was able to survive 8 years worth of updates to libraries and the core language. I frequently ran into code that was last modified around 2013 because it just worked and didn't need any refactoring. (For reference, ClojureScript didn't have a public release until 2011) For another anecdote, every Golang repository I've found that predates v2 modules is nearly impossible to build, especially if it contains dependencies that link straight to Google Code instead of GitHub. (As an exercise, try building the first public releases of etcd, prometheus, etc. They were super simple projects compared to what they are today, but you will have a tough time building them) Java and most JVM languages are the rare exception IMO (unless the project uses Gradle). That's one of many reasons why I love working with the Java platform :)
- lloydatkinson 3y ago
  > every TypeScript project I find from 2021 or earlier is simply impossible to build nowadays, This is the fault of all the bullshit tools that were never any good to begin with (Webpack, Babel, etc) and the Node ecosystem generally causing pain. If you had a package-lock.json you should (in theory) be able to install all of those and it should work. Of course, this relies on dependencies of dependencies actually following semantic versioning but I'm fairly sure many packages on npmjs.org do not follow semantic versioning. Worst case scenario, you can take your TS files and put them in a newly created project. Preferably the project has a minimal number of build tools, eg, 1. Such as Vite, for example. This effectively replaces easily 5 or 6 major load bearing dependencies that used to be necessary. Even better: Just use Deno, where it doesn't need any of this to build and run TS files!
  - gear54rus 3y ago
    How does lock file rely on semantic versioning? It specifies dependencies (and their dependencies) explicitly together with their exact hash not sure how one can have a problem running something if it installs all the same dependencies and using the same scripts
CJefferson 3y ago
This is probably the worst case, but I wrote an iPhone game back around then. I recently tried to build it and after a couple of days of not even getting close to something which built (never mind worked when running), I gave up.
swiftcoder 3y ago
One would hope so, but in a variety of popular environments that is not the case. Apple is particularly challenging in this regard - keep in mind, PowerPC macs were still actively supported in 2011. Since then we've sunset PowerPC support, sunset 32-bit support, and I imagine we're only a couple of years short of sunsetting Intel support as well I recently spent upwards of 4 hours trying to get a 2009 python project to run, and the graphical portion is still subtly broken on MacOS...

fragmede 3y ago

You've had a very different experience of the past 13 years if you've experienced no major shifts. Even the past year has had a whole big change with the advent of LLMs, nevermind the rise of the web, VSCode, typescript, rust, and more. In 2011, Java was on version 7. We're on 22 now in 2024. There have been some paradigm shifts in Java during that time. Streams (Java 8), Lambda expressions (Java 9), the var keyword (Java 10), Records (Java 14), switch and yield (Java 12/14), instanceof (Java 16). Functional programming over OOP; Cloud and microservices, emphasis on security, DevX, concurrency. Code written in 2011 still runs, but the world's changed around it.

squigz 3y ago
The rise of the web? In the past 13 years? Gosh does that make me feel old...
- fragmede 3y ago
  Shit, I learned to program before there was Google.
  - xandrius 3y ago
    I studied OpenGL when all I could find was literally 1 tutorial on it and it was not in my native language.
  - brabel 3y ago
    Reminds of a random comment or tweet I read somewhere where the person said their young children just couldn't believe she was so old that she was born before Google existed :D they just couldn't believe her :D so cute.
- bluenose69 3y ago
  I imagine some of us reading this learned to program before bitnet was a thing. Punched cards. Paper tape. Booting by entering a lot of binary numbers with toggle switches. Good times. Oh, and that ancient Fortran code? It still works and, if you can see patterns in arithmetic-if blocks, it still expresses clever algorithms elegantly.
xandrius 3y ago
What a world we must have lived in without VSCode, TS and rust, a truly undistinguishable one it seems.
The_Colonel 3y ago
> In 2011, Java was on version 7. We're on 22 now in 2024. In the IDE technology, the jump was even larger. In 2011, I was using Intellij 10, now I'm on version 2024. > There have been some paradigm shifts in Java during that time. Streams (Java 8), Lambda expressions (Java 9), the var keyword (Java 10), Records (Java 14), switch and yield (Java 12/14), instanceof (Java 16). The only listed Java feature which represented a paradigm shift was lambda expressions (which were released in v8, not v9), the rest are minor features.
- twic 3y ago
  Streams had a pretty huge impact on how a lot of people write code. Also, lambdas came in in 8, not 9. Streams without lambdas would have been pretty painful!
  - layer8 3y ago
    There were streams-like libraries before Java 8. It’s lambdas that made them more practical.
ecshafer 3y ago
concurrency is on your list why? DL added concurrency to Java long before 2011.
- 62951413 3y ago
  I remember using j.u.c in production back when it was still concurrent.jar. There were surprisingly many jobs in NYC/London circa 2006 if you had Core Java skills.

koito17 3y ago

In the Java world, sure. Other programming language ecosystems tend to have tons of churn. For an anecdote, every TypeScript project I find from 2021 or earlier is simply impossible to build nowadays, meanwhile the ClojureScript code I dealt with in a previous job was able to survive 8 years worth of updates to libraries and the core language. I frequently ran into code that was last modified around 2013 because it just worked and didn't need any refactoring. (For reference, ClojureScript didn't have a public release until 2011) For another anecdote, every Golang repository I've found that predates v2 modules is nearly impossible to build, especially if it contains dependencies that link straight to Google Code instead of GitHub. (As an exercise, try building the first public releases of etcd, prometheus, etc. They were super simple projects compared to what they are today, but you will have a tough time building them) Java and most JVM languages are the rare exception IMO (unless the project uses Gradle). That's one of many reasons why I love working with the Java platform :)

lloydatkinson 3y ago
> every TypeScript project I find from 2021 or earlier is simply impossible to build nowadays, This is the fault of all the bullshit tools that were never any good to begin with (Webpack, Babel, etc) and the Node ecosystem generally causing pain. If you had a package-lock.json you should (in theory) be able to install all of those and it should work. Of course, this relies on dependencies of dependencies actually following semantic versioning but I'm fairly sure many packages on npmjs.org do not follow semantic versioning. Worst case scenario, you can take your TS files and put them in a newly created project. Preferably the project has a minimal number of build tools, eg, 1. Such as Vite, for example. This effectively replaces easily 5 or 6 major load bearing dependencies that used to be necessary. Even better: Just use Deno, where it doesn't need any of this to build and run TS files!
- gear54rus 3y ago
  How does lock file rely on semantic versioning? It specifies dependencies (and their dependencies) explicitly together with their exact hash not sure how one can have a problem running something if it installs all the same dependencies and using the same scripts

CJefferson 3y ago

This is probably the worst case, but I wrote an iPhone game back around then. I recently tried to build it and after a couple of days of not even getting close to something which built (never mind worked when running), I gave up.

swiftcoder 3y ago

One would hope so, but in a variety of popular environments that is not the case. Apple is particularly challenging in this regard - keep in mind, PowerPC macs were still actively supported in 2011. Since then we've sunset PowerPC support, sunset 32-bit support, and I imagine we're only a couple of years short of sunsetting Intel support as well I recently spent upwards of 4 hours trying to get a 2009 python project to run, and the graphical portion is still subtly broken on MacOS...