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>I place most of the blame for these accidents on traffic engineers and city planners who let drivers speed through crowded pedestrian areas. What a dumb take.

>I place most of the blame for these accidents on traffic engineers and city planners who let drivers speed through crowded pedestrian areas. What a dumb take. "I blame the people who eat seafood on why the ocean's coral reefs are dying." "I blame the people who sell knives to chefs for murders in restaurants." It turns out that if you basically don't punish people, they don't care what wrongs they do. That's it. That's all there is to it, there is no optimisation that can avoid telling people not to be naughty. Drivers aren't taking more precaution in their driving and it shows. There are less pedestrians on the streets next to fast cars than ever before...

shalmanese 2y ago
A junior fat fingers a command line and accidentally deletes prod. Do you a) Immediately fire the junior, yell a bunch and send company wide messages that anyone else making the same mistake will face the same consequences b) Do a retro, figure out process changes that can avoid the same mistake happening again and thank the junior for discovering a flaw in our processes that leave room for improvement?
- seoulmetro 2y ago
  >A junior fat fingers a command line and accidentally deletes prod. Do you A) Delete prod yourself because it was obviously your design flaw for creating a production server. B) Teach juniors that deleting prod destroys the company and that to keep the company alive we need to limit anyone to deleting prod more than two times at the company. We don't want to punish people who know how not to delete prod from working on prod. C) Teach juniors that deleting prod destroys the company and that deleting prod means their instant access to prod is now forfeit for a set amount of time and needs to be reviewed. D) Ramble on about how everything that goes wrong with a persons actions is a good thing and all the negatives are actually positives. Would you like a 50/50? Neither of your solutions are good. You can't "change a process" and have prod be both worked on and undeletable. Prods have existed for a long time without constantly being deleted everywhere, they also need to be accessed. This isn't a situation where you're magically limited from deleting X or Y or Z but not XYZ. >and thank the junior for discovering a flaw in our processes that leave room for improvement? This is the most unhinged part of your comment and made me laugh. Reward the poop on the floor with a treat! It's clearly my fault for buying carpet!
  - zamfi 2y ago
    I find this post super confusing, like I can’t tell if it’s satire or just super strawmanning. The problem clearly isn’t that “you can delete prod” — the problem is that you can “fat finger a command line and accidentally delete prod”. You can absolutely make it harder to delete prod—since this is something few people are doing regularly—by requiring some kind of confirmation. That’s the process change being discussed, and is the smart response.
    - seoulmetro 2y ago
      You can make anything harder. You can't make it impossible. You are also a terrible leader if you treat every mistake as a positive. No strawman. Just straight up reasonable discipline that has worked for thousands of years.
      - zamfi 2y ago
        > You are also a terrible leader if you treat every mistake as a positive. Zero people advocated this approach in this thread. > No strawman. Noun: strawman. 1. An intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent's real argument.
        seoulmetro 2y ago
        No, the person I replied to did. Yes, still no strawman.
        zamfi 2y ago
        “thank the junior for discovering a flaw” — presumably what you’re referring to — is not the claim you’re making.
        seoulmetro 2y ago
        Being able to alter the code is not a flaw. Making the mistake of altering the code incorrectly is.

shalmanese 2y ago

A junior fat fingers a command line and accidentally deletes prod. Do you a) Immediately fire the junior, yell a bunch and send company wide messages that anyone else making the same mistake will face the same consequences b) Do a retro, figure out process changes that can avoid the same mistake happening again and thank the junior for discovering a flaw in our processes that leave room for improvement?

seoulmetro 2y ago
>A junior fat fingers a command line and accidentally deletes prod. Do you A) Delete prod yourself because it was obviously your design flaw for creating a production server. B) Teach juniors that deleting prod destroys the company and that to keep the company alive we need to limit anyone to deleting prod more than two times at the company. We don't want to punish people who know how not to delete prod from working on prod. C) Teach juniors that deleting prod destroys the company and that deleting prod means their instant access to prod is now forfeit for a set amount of time and needs to be reviewed. D) Ramble on about how everything that goes wrong with a persons actions is a good thing and all the negatives are actually positives. Would you like a 50/50? Neither of your solutions are good. You can't "change a process" and have prod be both worked on and undeletable. Prods have existed for a long time without constantly being deleted everywhere, they also need to be accessed. This isn't a situation where you're magically limited from deleting X or Y or Z but not XYZ. >and thank the junior for discovering a flaw in our processes that leave room for improvement? This is the most unhinged part of your comment and made me laugh. Reward the poop on the floor with a treat! It's clearly my fault for buying carpet!
- zamfi 2y ago
  I find this post super confusing, like I can’t tell if it’s satire or just super strawmanning. The problem clearly isn’t that “you can delete prod” — the problem is that you can “fat finger a command line and accidentally delete prod”. You can absolutely make it harder to delete prod—since this is something few people are doing regularly—by requiring some kind of confirmation. That’s the process change being discussed, and is the smart response.
  - seoulmetro 2y ago
    You can make anything harder. You can't make it impossible. You are also a terrible leader if you treat every mistake as a positive. No strawman. Just straight up reasonable discipline that has worked for thousands of years.
    - zamfi 2y ago
      > You are also a terrible leader if you treat every mistake as a positive. Zero people advocated this approach in this thread. > No strawman. Noun: strawman. 1. An intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent's real argument.
      - seoulmetro 2y ago
        No, the person I replied to did. Yes, still no strawman.
        zamfi 2y ago
        “thank the junior for discovering a flaw” — presumably what you’re referring to — is not the claim you’re making.
        seoulmetro 2y ago
        Being able to alter the code is not a flaw. Making the mistake of altering the code incorrectly is.