17 ms·

It's kinda crazy just how untouchable Israel is in the US politically. TikTok can spread all sorts of craziness amongst America's youth for years -- but the se

It's kinda crazy just how untouchable Israel is in the US politically. TikTok can spread all sorts of craziness amongst America's youth for years -- but the second politicians find out it's being used to oppose Israel's actions in Gaza, it's banned by congress and the president (which is of course still pending). Ivy Leagues can spend years promoting very radical ideas and kicking out people left and right for wrongthink -- but the moment they stand up for very permissive free speech (finally) it happens to be on the wrong issue and boom, they're fired. Student protests for good and bad reasons have been going on forever. But suddenly the media is very concerned with student protests being ill thought out in a way they haven't been before. If you asked me if Israel still had this much pull in America, I'd have said not they don't. But obviously I was very wrong.

threeseed 2y ago
TikTok isn't banned. They are just being forced to operate it as a US company. And given we have whistleblowers who say they were providing information to the Chinese government and odd data like below it doesn't seem particularly unreasonable. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GMAVQ5VXsAE1weD?format=jpg&name=medium https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GMAVQ5VXsAE1weD?format=jpg&name=...
- mistermann 2y ago
  > They are just being forced to operate it as a US company. Can you explain the role the word "just" is playing in your statement, and how you determined it to be true?
- nostromo 2y ago
  None of that is new. What changed is that politicians didn't like the messages being sent on TikTok. And, yes, the act calls for it to be banned unless it's divested. That's still a ban.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > They are just being forced to operate it as a US company They are being strongly encouraged / coerced to operate as a non-Chinese controlled company. If they were controlled by a company in France, India or Brazil, that would be fine. Failing that, TikTok would be removed from app stores (and U.S. hosting). They are still free to do business in America. And TikTok.com will cleanly resolve. (Unlike e.g. Facebook in China.)
  - TMWNN 2y ago
    >And TikTok.com will cleanly resolve. My understanding is that the new law also covers webapps.
- tzs 2y ago
  I saw some mergers and acquisitions analysts saying that TikTok is big enough that it would not be possible for the companies in the US that might feasibly buy it to do the necessary due diligence to make a deal before the deadline imposed by the law. If that's true then it is arguably effectively an attempted ban.
  - tmaly 2y ago
    I saw an article that US revenue is not enough to make it worth wild for them to divulge their algorithms. They would try to fight the law in court, but it they fail, they will not sell.
- DiogenesKynikos 2y ago
  The people behind the bill have said over and over again that their aim is to ban TikTok. This is an example of Gallagher, who introduced the latest bill, saying just that: [0]. They've written the latest bill in a way that they think will allow them to avoid First Amendment objections, but it's functionally equivalent to a ban. 0. https://www.rubio.senate.gov/rubio-gallagher-introduce-bipartisan-legislation-to-ban-tiktok/ https://www.rubio.senate.gov/rubio-gallagher-introduce-bipar...
mistermann 2y ago
> It's kinda crazy just how untouchable Israel is in the US politically. Consider what you've seen in the media for...well, your whole life. People tend to not collectively form invalid beliefs accidentally.
invalidname 2y ago
I have the opposing view. Ivy league has spread anti-Israel propaganda and misinformation for decades while taking Qatari money. It got so deep a lot of Jews within Academia have a very distorted view of history and accept various academic claims (e.g. equating Israel with colonialism) as fact rather than as an academic exercise. I used to think this was grandstanding by the right, but the delusional letters sent by the Ivy league groups after Oct 7th have really opened my eyes on this. Adding to that, Ivy league leaders showed a huge double standard when it comes to antisemitism vs. other forms of racism/discrimination. If Israel had that much power these things would stop. There's clear misinformation on this subject. Students (even Jewish students) are walking around with Hamas symbols. An organization whose stated purpose is the destruction of a sovereign state. An organization who literally sabotaged the attempt we had to form a Palestinian state. An organization that is still keeping US citizens as hostages including women and children. If it was any country other than Israel these people would be banned from public life and maybe jailed for supporting terror. The problem is that Americans such as yourself, are making the mistake of assuming you understand. You don't: https://twitter.com/ABZayed/status/1784565074964664531 https://twitter.com/ABZayed/status/1784565074964664531 These extremists are psychopaths, they are not people who can be reasoned with. Example: recently the son of the Hamas leader was killed in the conflict. He posted a picture of him delivering the news to his wife and they're both smiling in the picture. They're either pretending or are literally happy their son died. The most basic normal thing about people should be the desire to protect our children. It's true for most Muslims, Jews, Christians, Hindu etc. It should be universal. These people don't even abide by that basic rule. They are HAPPY to sacrifice their own children not for freedom (Israel offered a full Palestinian state before) but for a holy war that would engulf the earth. The fact that US students are wearing their colors is astoundingly ignorant and prolongs the war. Another proof. Hamas was offered a deal that would stop the war. Israel wants its hostages back. They can stop that right away by accepting the deal. But when they see the demonstrations in the US and Europe they won't accept the deal to further damage Israels standing.
- jhanschoo 2y ago
  > Students (even Jewish students) are walking around with Hamas symbols. Can you substantiate this claim with evidence; e.g. a photo of a student bearing a Hamas (not Palestine) symbol on campus?
temporarely 2y ago
> It's kinda crazy It's called Cognitive dissonance. False notions meet the hard surface of reality and are shattered. The criminal (fact) PM of that "only democracy" gave public command to his US stooges (our representatives) and immediately the Israeli-trained dogs are let loose on Americans exercising "free speech".
Jensson 2y ago
> It's kinda crazy just how untouchable Israel is in the US politically. Isn't it just as crazy how much people care about Palestine when much worse atrocities are happening around the world? Why do they care so much about just that one instead of the many others?
- runarberg 2y ago
  The short answer is that the US is a direct supporter of Israel, that Israel’s genocidal war against Gaza is funded by US taxpayer money, with US representatives speaking for genocide in the name of their constituents. The longer answer is that the Gaza genocide the the big atrocity of this decade. It is has a large publicity, it is of a larger scale, there are so many stories around it, scandals, etc. that it catches the media attention very easily. Plus people tend to sympathize when they hear stories like that. But the real answer is that people don’t really care about whataboutism. Just because they care about one issue, that doesn’t mean they must care about every issue.
- feedforward 2y ago
  > Isn't it just as crazy how much people care about Palestine when much worse atrocities are happening around the world? What are the much worse atrocities than Gaza that are happening? > Why do they care so much about just that one instead of the many others? The US is centrally involved in supporting the slaughter in Gaza. The Economist polled Americans if what is happening in Gaza is a genocide and the most given answer was yes. The US and Israel stand alone in the UN on Palestinian self-determination (other than US compact member Micronesia, and the 10,000 people of the island of Nauru). US and world popular opinion is against what Israel and the US government is doing.
RickJWagner 2y ago
Israel has been a close ally for a long time. Only on one side of the political spectrum is there any trouble about it. The pro-Hamas side is loud but small. In time it will fade away and America's relationship with Israel will remain.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

threeseed 2y ago

TikTok isn't banned. They are just being forced to operate it as a US company. And given we have whistleblowers who say they were providing information to the Chinese government and odd data like below it doesn't seem particularly unreasonable. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GMAVQ5VXsAE1weD?format=jpg&name=medium https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GMAVQ5VXsAE1weD?format=jpg&name=...

mistermann 2y ago
> They are just being forced to operate it as a US company. Can you explain the role the word "just" is playing in your statement, and how you determined it to be true?
nostromo 2y ago
None of that is new. What changed is that politicians didn't like the messages being sent on TikTok. And, yes, the act calls for it to be banned unless it's divested. That's still a ban.
JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> They are just being forced to operate it as a US company They are being strongly encouraged / coerced to operate as a non-Chinese controlled company. If they were controlled by a company in France, India or Brazil, that would be fine. Failing that, TikTok would be removed from app stores (and U.S. hosting). They are still free to do business in America. And TikTok.com will cleanly resolve. (Unlike e.g. Facebook in China.)
- TMWNN 2y ago
  >And TikTok.com will cleanly resolve. My understanding is that the new law also covers webapps.
tzs 2y ago
I saw some mergers and acquisitions analysts saying that TikTok is big enough that it would not be possible for the companies in the US that might feasibly buy it to do the necessary due diligence to make a deal before the deadline imposed by the law. If that's true then it is arguably effectively an attempted ban.
- tmaly 2y ago
  I saw an article that US revenue is not enough to make it worth wild for them to divulge their algorithms. They would try to fight the law in court, but it they fail, they will not sell.
DiogenesKynikos 2y ago
The people behind the bill have said over and over again that their aim is to ban TikTok. This is an example of Gallagher, who introduced the latest bill, saying just that: [0]. They've written the latest bill in a way that they think will allow them to avoid First Amendment objections, but it's functionally equivalent to a ban. 0. https://www.rubio.senate.gov/rubio-gallagher-introduce-bipartisan-legislation-to-ban-tiktok/ https://www.rubio.senate.gov/rubio-gallagher-introduce-bipar...

mistermann 2y ago

> It's kinda crazy just how untouchable Israel is in the US politically. Consider what you've seen in the media for...well, your whole life. People tend to not collectively form invalid beliefs accidentally.

invalidname 2y ago

I have the opposing view. Ivy league has spread anti-Israel propaganda and misinformation for decades while taking Qatari money. It got so deep a lot of Jews within Academia have a very distorted view of history and accept various academic claims (e.g. equating Israel with colonialism) as fact rather than as an academic exercise. I used to think this was grandstanding by the right, but the delusional letters sent by the Ivy league groups after Oct 7th have really opened my eyes on this. Adding to that, Ivy league leaders showed a huge double standard when it comes to antisemitism vs. other forms of racism/discrimination. If Israel had that much power these things would stop. There's clear misinformation on this subject. Students (even Jewish students) are walking around with Hamas symbols. An organization whose stated purpose is the destruction of a sovereign state. An organization who literally sabotaged the attempt we had to form a Palestinian state. An organization that is still keeping US citizens as hostages including women and children. If it was any country other than Israel these people would be banned from public life and maybe jailed for supporting terror. The problem is that Americans such as yourself, are making the mistake of assuming you understand. You don't: https://twitter.com/ABZayed/status/1784565074964664531 https://twitter.com/ABZayed/status/1784565074964664531 These extremists are psychopaths, they are not people who can be reasoned with. Example: recently the son of the Hamas leader was killed in the conflict. He posted a picture of him delivering the news to his wife and they're both smiling in the picture. They're either pretending or are literally happy their son died. The most basic normal thing about people should be the desire to protect our children. It's true for most Muslims, Jews, Christians, Hindu etc. It should be universal. These people don't even abide by that basic rule. They are HAPPY to sacrifice their own children not for freedom (Israel offered a full Palestinian state before) but for a holy war that would engulf the earth. The fact that US students are wearing their colors is astoundingly ignorant and prolongs the war. Another proof. Hamas was offered a deal that would stop the war. Israel wants its hostages back. They can stop that right away by accepting the deal. But when they see the demonstrations in the US and Europe they won't accept the deal to further damage Israels standing.

jhanschoo 2y ago
> Students (even Jewish students) are walking around with Hamas symbols. Can you substantiate this claim with evidence; e.g. a photo of a student bearing a Hamas (not Palestine) symbol on campus?

temporarely 2y ago

> It's kinda crazy It's called Cognitive dissonance. False notions meet the hard surface of reality and are shattered. The criminal (fact) PM of that "only democracy" gave public command to his US stooges (our representatives) and immediately the Israeli-trained dogs are let loose on Americans exercising "free speech".

Jensson 2y ago

> It's kinda crazy just how untouchable Israel is in the US politically. Isn't it just as crazy how much people care about Palestine when much worse atrocities are happening around the world? Why do they care so much about just that one instead of the many others?

runarberg 2y ago
The short answer is that the US is a direct supporter of Israel, that Israel’s genocidal war against Gaza is funded by US taxpayer money, with US representatives speaking for genocide in the name of their constituents. The longer answer is that the Gaza genocide the the big atrocity of this decade. It is has a large publicity, it is of a larger scale, there are so many stories around it, scandals, etc. that it catches the media attention very easily. Plus people tend to sympathize when they hear stories like that. But the real answer is that people don’t really care about whataboutism. Just because they care about one issue, that doesn’t mean they must care about every issue.
feedforward 2y ago
> Isn't it just as crazy how much people care about Palestine when much worse atrocities are happening around the world? What are the much worse atrocities than Gaza that are happening? > Why do they care so much about just that one instead of the many others? The US is centrally involved in supporting the slaughter in Gaza. The Economist polled Americans if what is happening in Gaza is a genocide and the most given answer was yes. The US and Israel stand alone in the UN on Palestinian self-determination (other than US compact member Micronesia, and the 10,000 people of the island of Nauru). US and world popular opinion is against what Israel and the US government is doing.

RickJWagner 2y ago

Israel has been a close ally for a long time. Only on one side of the political spectrum is there any trouble about it. The pro-Hamas side is loud but small. In time it will fade away and America's relationship with Israel will remain.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]