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Java's maintained almost perfect backward compatibility. If you want code you wrote today to run in 10 more years, Java is probably the best choice. Most other

Java's maintained almost perfect backward compatibility. If you want code you wrote today to run in 10 more years, Java is probably the best choice. Most other languages have too much of a history of breaking changes, or if you pick C/C++, you'll have issues linking against an old UI library.

worthless-trash 3y ago
There are many other languages with a better lindy effect rating ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lindy_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lindy_effect), common lisp, erlang, fortran and more. I won't doubt how java doing well, but other languages have it beat.
- dehrmann 3y ago
  > common lisp, erlang, fortran That's a pretty esoteric list. Javascript would have been a better choice because of widespread deployment by multiple vendors and heavy legacy.
  - worthless-trash 3y ago
    Javascript is still pretty young (comparatively) however I do believe you'd be right in saying that its likely to be around for a very long time.
    - itronitron 3y ago
      Interestingly, Javascript is just as old as Java, and Python is older.
      - worthless-trash 3y ago
        Python kinda dies each major release though, there is no backwards compatability goals.
- EdwardDiego 3y ago
  Except they're not in widespread usage, so aren't relevant. No grads are going "gee, do I go with a .NET shop, a JVM shop, or a BEAM shop?" And as for Common Lisp, which implementation? They can't even be compatible amongst themselves, so I'm dubious that SBCL CL from 13 years ago would just work.
  - worthless-trash 2y ago
    > And as for Common Lisp, which implementation? They can't even be compatible > amongst themselves, so I'm dubious that SBCL CL from 13 years ago would just > work. For a bit more solid example: https://web.archive.org/web/20150217111426/http://www.informatimago.com/develop/lisp/com/informatimago/small-cl-pgms/wang.html https://web.archive.org/web/20150217111426/http://www.inform... This too will likely end up being downvoted for talking against the hivemind here.
  - worthless-trash 3y ago
    > Except they're not in widespread usage, so aren't relevant. I don't know any java programmers either. Apparently people use java, I just dont know any that do it willingly. I'm sure they -must- use it, but erlang/fortran/etc as mythical to you as java is to me. > No grads are going "gee, do I go with a .NET shop, a JVM shop, or a BEAM shop?" Fresh grads don't know better, they take whatever pays. Businesses choose the cheapest (not the best) option and grads don't have the experience to choose better. Grads choices are not a measure of quality or desirability. > And as for Common Lisp, which implementation? They can't even be compatible > amongst themselves, so I'm dubious that SBCL CL from 13 years ago would just > work. My SBCL from 2010ish works, I've patched it up and improved it over time, but I haven't tried to run the original, it probably does. Its been through svn to git so I've lost the history, all of this is as anecdotal as anything else. Previous lisp code that I wrote was trivial and ran out of the box on SBCL, however the code is very self contained and not 'networked' or 'modern'. My erlang code however has been running in a cluster since the early 2000's, it has also been through several releases for additional features, however I no longer have access to that code so I can't validate what has been done to it for the last decade. I like your arguments, I just dont think we're coming from the same historical viewpoint.
- stavros 3y ago
  The Lindy effect assumes you have no other information about the thing you're estimating. Obviously if I know the thing is on its deathbed, I can't invoke the Lindy effect. Similarly, a hundred-year-old language one person uses any more isn't likely to last another hundred years. Given the relative sizes, I wouldn't bet on Common Lisp outlasting Java just because it's older.
  - worthless-trash 3y ago
    Its likely we will both be dead before either of them are no longer being maintained.
- lmm 3y ago
  Yeah have you tried actually running a common lisp program from decades ago on a different implementation from the one it was developed on?

worthless-trash 3y ago

There are many other languages with a better lindy effect rating ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lindy_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lindy_effect), common lisp, erlang, fortran and more. I won't doubt how java doing well, but other languages have it beat.

dehrmann 3y ago
> common lisp, erlang, fortran That's a pretty esoteric list. Javascript would have been a better choice because of widespread deployment by multiple vendors and heavy legacy.
- worthless-trash 3y ago
  Javascript is still pretty young (comparatively) however I do believe you'd be right in saying that its likely to be around for a very long time.
  - itronitron 3y ago
    Interestingly, Javascript is just as old as Java, and Python is older.
    - worthless-trash 3y ago
      Python kinda dies each major release though, there is no backwards compatability goals.
EdwardDiego 3y ago
Except they're not in widespread usage, so aren't relevant. No grads are going "gee, do I go with a .NET shop, a JVM shop, or a BEAM shop?" And as for Common Lisp, which implementation? They can't even be compatible amongst themselves, so I'm dubious that SBCL CL from 13 years ago would just work.
- worthless-trash 2y ago
  > And as for Common Lisp, which implementation? They can't even be compatible > amongst themselves, so I'm dubious that SBCL CL from 13 years ago would just > work. For a bit more solid example: https://web.archive.org/web/20150217111426/http://www.informatimago.com/develop/lisp/com/informatimago/small-cl-pgms/wang.html https://web.archive.org/web/20150217111426/http://www.inform... This too will likely end up being downvoted for talking against the hivemind here.
- worthless-trash 3y ago
  > Except they're not in widespread usage, so aren't relevant. I don't know any java programmers either. Apparently people use java, I just dont know any that do it willingly. I'm sure they -must- use it, but erlang/fortran/etc as mythical to you as java is to me. > No grads are going "gee, do I go with a .NET shop, a JVM shop, or a BEAM shop?" Fresh grads don't know better, they take whatever pays. Businesses choose the cheapest (not the best) option and grads don't have the experience to choose better. Grads choices are not a measure of quality or desirability. > And as for Common Lisp, which implementation? They can't even be compatible > amongst themselves, so I'm dubious that SBCL CL from 13 years ago would just > work. My SBCL from 2010ish works, I've patched it up and improved it over time, but I haven't tried to run the original, it probably does. Its been through svn to git so I've lost the history, all of this is as anecdotal as anything else. Previous lisp code that I wrote was trivial and ran out of the box on SBCL, however the code is very self contained and not 'networked' or 'modern'. My erlang code however has been running in a cluster since the early 2000's, it has also been through several releases for additional features, however I no longer have access to that code so I can't validate what has been done to it for the last decade. I like your arguments, I just dont think we're coming from the same historical viewpoint.
stavros 3y ago
The Lindy effect assumes you have no other information about the thing you're estimating. Obviously if I know the thing is on its deathbed, I can't invoke the Lindy effect. Similarly, a hundred-year-old language one person uses any more isn't likely to last another hundred years. Given the relative sizes, I wouldn't bet on Common Lisp outlasting Java just because it's older.
- worthless-trash 3y ago
  Its likely we will both be dead before either of them are no longer being maintained.
lmm 3y ago
Yeah have you tried actually running a common lisp program from decades ago on a different implementation from the one it was developed on?