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There’s plenty of battery being deployed for ancillary services in Texas (frequency response, 30 minute, etc). They are getting paid tons to do it and it’s bee

There’s plenty of battery being deployed for ancillary services in Texas (frequency response, 30 minute, etc). They are getting paid tons to do it and it’s been coming online for years.

cranky908canuck 2y ago
This doesn't seem to be getting the exposure it deserves --- please give links, I'd like to see! You seem to be implying that "the featured article" [1] is not giving that exposure (which is my sense as well). [1] looking for the shorthand for the original link that started the discussion, thinking that 'TFA' is correct, is this in the HN FAQ?
- 0xBDB 2y ago
  https://www.utilitydive.com/news/battery-storage-texas-reliability-grid-benefits/695982/ https://www.utilitydive.com/news/battery-storage-texas-relia... It appears (not an expert) that Texas leads the country by such a margin in renewables that increasing battery storage an order of magnitude in 3 years was sort of a drop in the bucket.
  - cranky908canuck 2y ago
    Could be. The emerging picture (from some observers (including me, but I'm just one opinion) seems to be to build out like heck, then deal with the 'overproduction' using storage and markets. Storage can be things like smart hot water heaters, deferrable loads, local residential batteries, residential EV charging, etc...
- singhrac 2y ago
  This article is decent: https://modoenergy.com/research/ercot-battery-energy-storage-system-august-2023-revenues-ancillary-services-ecrs-arbitrage https://modoenergy.com/research/ercot-battery-energy-storage... (no affiliation, looked like based on disclosure data). Look at the revenue: it's 6% (now 12%) from energy arb and 58% (now 34%) from RRS-PFR (primary frequency response). Fully discharging and charging a battery is expensive from a lifecycle perspective (I think, I would love a reference), and if you can get paid a lot of money to charge/discharge by 5%, or not to do anything at all but sit charged (ECRS), you'd take that before damaging your expensive installation. There isn't a lot of generation like this, primarily because getting a thermal generator to scale up or down is expensive, even for the nimblest of combined cycle plants.
  - cranky908canuck 2y ago
    Thanks for the reply! Seems like this is 'really short term' (under 1h) and in the realm of frequency stabilization (short peaks)...?

There’s plenty of battery being deployed for ancillary services in Texas (frequency response, 30 minute, etc). They are getting paid tons to do it and it’s been coming online for years.

cranky908canuck 2y ago

This doesn't seem to be getting the exposure it deserves --- please give links, I'd like to see! You seem to be implying that "the featured article" [1] is not giving that exposure (which is my sense as well). [1] looking for the shorthand for the original link that started the discussion, thinking that 'TFA' is correct, is this in the HN FAQ?

0xBDB 2y ago
https://www.utilitydive.com/news/battery-storage-texas-reliability-grid-benefits/695982/ https://www.utilitydive.com/news/battery-storage-texas-relia... It appears (not an expert) that Texas leads the country by such a margin in renewables that increasing battery storage an order of magnitude in 3 years was sort of a drop in the bucket.
- cranky908canuck 2y ago
  Could be. The emerging picture (from some observers (including me, but I'm just one opinion) seems to be to build out like heck, then deal with the 'overproduction' using storage and markets. Storage can be things like smart hot water heaters, deferrable loads, local residential batteries, residential EV charging, etc...
singhrac 2y ago
This article is decent: https://modoenergy.com/research/ercot-battery-energy-storage-system-august-2023-revenues-ancillary-services-ecrs-arbitrage https://modoenergy.com/research/ercot-battery-energy-storage... (no affiliation, looked like based on disclosure data). Look at the revenue: it's 6% (now 12%) from energy arb and 58% (now 34%) from RRS-PFR (primary frequency response). Fully discharging and charging a battery is expensive from a lifecycle perspective (I think, I would love a reference), and if you can get paid a lot of money to charge/discharge by 5%, or not to do anything at all but sit charged (ECRS), you'd take that before damaging your expensive installation. There isn't a lot of generation like this, primarily because getting a thermal generator to scale up or down is expensive, even for the nimblest of combined cycle plants.
- cranky908canuck 2y ago
  Thanks for the reply! Seems like this is 'really short term' (under 1h) and in the realm of frequency stabilization (short peaks)...?