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6502 – Guideline to Reverse Engineering (how to read die shots) [pdf]

123 points by siraben 2y ago

siraben 2y ago
Some of the text seems to be cut off, but there is a docx version that loads fine with LibreOffice.[0] I am hosting a PDF export of that too.[1] [0] https://downloads.reactivemicro.com/Electronics/Reverse%20Engineering/6502%20-%20Guideline%20to%20Reverse%20Engineering%20v1.0.pdf https://downloads.reactivemicro.com/Electronics/Reverse%20En... [1] https://cloud.siraben.dev/s/z9GTFfjDDgGXHSQ https://cloud.siraben.dev/s/z9GTFfjDDgGXHSQ
- buserror 2y ago
  [dead]
surfingdino 2y ago
What's the legal status of reverse engineered designs? Can they be used commercially?
- ce4 2y ago
  Not unless one would take special measures of a clean room RE: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clean_room_design https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clean_room_design
  - kosmickanga 2y ago
    Based on the SCPA act only giving 10 years of protection and the 6502 coming out in 1975, it might be fine to exploit commercially. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semiconductor_Chip_Protection_Act_of_1984 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semiconductor_Chip_Protection_...
- RetroTechie 2y ago
  Afaik: # IC designs are covered by copyright law. But that covers an IC's specific design (transistors as layed out on the die, artwork etc). So verbatim 1:1 copying is a no-no. # Their function may be re-implemented if you design that re-implementation yourself. But some aspects of an IC's function may be covered by patents. This is why eg. there are no 3rd party x86 vendors apart from AMD/Intel or their licensees: leaving out patented bits would produce a non-competitive chip. Read: with IC for which patents have expired, reverse engineer to determine function -> re-implement using newer tech, is most likely ok. For a recent-ish chip, you may want to skip functions still covered by patents. The line between "reverse engineer to determine function" and "copy original design verbatim" is fuzzy though. That's where a cleanroom approach comes in (as noted by ce4). In case of the 6502, I wouldn't sweat it. :D
  - surfingdino 2y ago
    Thank you for that clear and informative answer.

123 points by siraben 2y ago

Some of the text seems to be cut off, but there is a docx version that loads fine with LibreOffice.[0] I am hosting a PDF export of that too.[1] [0] https://downloads.reactivemicro.com/Electronics/Reverse%20Engineering/6502%20-%20Guideline%20to%20Reverse%20Engineering%20v1.0.pdf https://downloads.reactivemicro.com/Electronics/Reverse%20En... [1] https://cloud.siraben.dev/s/z9GTFfjDDgGXHSQ https://cloud.siraben.dev/s/z9GTFfjDDgGXHSQ

buserror 2y ago
[dead]

surfingdino 2y ago

What's the legal status of reverse engineered designs? Can they be used commercially?

ce4 2y ago
Not unless one would take special measures of a clean room RE: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clean_room_design https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clean_room_design
- kosmickanga 2y ago
  Based on the SCPA act only giving 10 years of protection and the 6502 coming out in 1975, it might be fine to exploit commercially. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semiconductor_Chip_Protection_Act_of_1984 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semiconductor_Chip_Protection_...
RetroTechie 2y ago
Afaik: # IC designs are covered by copyright law. But that covers an IC's specific design (transistors as layed out on the die, artwork etc). So verbatim 1:1 copying is a no-no. # Their function may be re-implemented if you design that re-implementation yourself. But some aspects of an IC's function may be covered by patents. This is why eg. there are no 3rd party x86 vendors apart from AMD/Intel or their licensees: leaving out patented bits would produce a non-competitive chip. Read: with IC for which patents have expired, reverse engineer to determine function -> re-implement using newer tech, is most likely ok. For a recent-ish chip, you may want to skip functions still covered by patents. The line between "reverse engineer to determine function" and "copy original design verbatim" is fuzzy though. That's where a cleanroom approach comes in (as noted by ce4). In case of the 6502, I wouldn't sweat it. :D
- surfingdino 2y ago
  Thank you for that clear and informative answer.