4 ms·

Carmakers build what sells. So what went "wrong" is that people prefer powerful cars with plenty of space, comfort, and bells and whistles rather than "3l/100k

Carmakers build what sells. So what went "wrong" is that people prefer powerful cars with plenty of space, comfort, and bells and whistles rather than "3l/100km"...

korhojoa 3y ago
Conveniently forgetting that the SUV trend started due to a shitty workaround to fuel economy requirements. There are so many unnecessarily large cars around nowadays.
lionkor 3y ago
This is the drug dealer argument; if it wasn't me, someone else would
- mytailorisrich 3y ago
  Whatever you want to call it that's the reality.
- mbostleman 3y ago
  I thought it was an observation of a market that is primarily free.
  - roughly 3y ago
    The entire article this comment thread is attached to is a liturgy of all of the policies affecting this market, and all the distortions created by the various actors.
  - Freedom2 3y ago
    Despite tariffs and regulations that restrict how "free" the market is compared to other vehicle markets overseas?
  - mytailorisrich 3y ago
    Correct. While there are many rules and regulations that affect the auto markets, ultimately cars, including Europe, have grown in size because of market forces (I.e. what consumers prefer)
aporetics 3y ago
As though marketing never influences what people want.
ethbr1 3y ago
> Carmakers build what sells. Eh, they build what makes them the most profit. That's a much more complicated can of worms than what sells. It includes tax policy, rebates, financing rates, mileage standards, engine technology costs, etc.
- mbostleman 3y ago
  If enough people wanted the same cars as the Vox author wants, they’d be made.
  - Sabinus 3y ago
    Not if you set up the market such that other cars are significantly cheaper. The market is only free to respond to demand when an intersection of demand and regulation makes it economical.
OtherShrezzing 3y ago
That's not the case in Europe though. Lots of people in Europe have exactly two preferences when purchasing a vehicle: low price, and good fuel economy. All of Europe's best selling cars in 2022[1] fit either or both of those criteria. Europe has a strongly revealed culturally-ingrained preference towards economical cars. [1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/1127929/best-selling-car-models-in-europe-by-units-sold/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/1127929/best-selling-car...
- blibble 3y ago
  it is the case, the average european car is becoming a ridiculous SUV/pickup too the rate of increase in mass of european cars is now greater than that of the US
- mytailorisrich 3y ago
  Cars in Europe are becoming, and have already become, massive as well. Preference towards economical cars does not mean any of my previous comment isn't true. At some point cars are economical enough and other features become a better selling point in the market instead of absolute best possible fuel economy.
mitthrowaway2 3y ago
Are you saying that the reasons in the article are incorrect, and what happened was a change in customer preferences?
voisin 3y ago
> Carmakers build what sells. This is only true when carmakers are sufficiently experimenting and letting customers decide what sells, but when they all make extremely similar products in each category, it isn’t true. For examples look at the truck category - in North America at least, there is effectively no way to get a truck that is not loaded with electronics and silly features as the makers stopped competing on anything else. There is no “light weight, utilitarian build” truck that can be bought. And magically they all have super high hoods and massive interiors. The same is true in every category I have looked at.
- rcpt 3y ago
  Vans
  - voisin 3y ago
    Minivans? Work vans? Where’s the experimentation? They all seem to compete on the same narrow list of metrics leading to homogenization of the product category. So it isn’t “we build what sells” but rather “customers need to buy and we define what’s available quite narrowly”
    - piva00 3y ago
      Work vans in Europe have quite some variety to choose from, usually the segment is divided in 3 sizes: small ones based on compact cars chassis, a mid-size and larger ones with the chassis adaptable from a box van to a mini-truck, even with the possibility to exchange part of the rear for a bed truck. Some brands have an extended version for the mid/larger sizes, either to accommodate more passengers, have larger boxes or to fit a box truck enclosure on the back.
      - voisin 3y ago
        > in Europe That’s the difference. I am writing from a North American perspective and I am often jealous of the seemingly endless variety of options available elsewhere in the world. Just know that we North Americans aren’t necessarily choosing to buy the giant trucks - in many cases we would love smaller options but they don’t exist.
Zpalmtree 3y ago
Exactly. This article is all over the place. It's the tariffs making americans buy SUVs, european cars are too expensive! Then they complain that a tax increase on SUV owners in DC was opposed? They clearly don't want Americans to have cheaper cars - just force people to use the cars they think are 'correct'. Gotta save the environment, who cares about the consumer?
eddd-ddde 3y ago
Drugs sell really good yet we have laws against that. Maybe some regulation on what a car company can sell would be good.

Carmakers build what sells. So what went "wrong" is that people prefer powerful cars with plenty of space, comfort, and bells and whistles rather than "3l/100km"...

korhojoa 3y ago

Conveniently forgetting that the SUV trend started due to a shitty workaround to fuel economy requirements. There are so many unnecessarily large cars around nowadays.

lionkor 3y ago

This is the drug dealer argument; if it wasn't me, someone else would

mytailorisrich 3y ago
Whatever you want to call it that's the reality.
mbostleman 3y ago
I thought it was an observation of a market that is primarily free.
- roughly 3y ago
  The entire article this comment thread is attached to is a liturgy of all of the policies affecting this market, and all the distortions created by the various actors.
- Freedom2 3y ago
  Despite tariffs and regulations that restrict how "free" the market is compared to other vehicle markets overseas?
- mytailorisrich 3y ago
  Correct. While there are many rules and regulations that affect the auto markets, ultimately cars, including Europe, have grown in size because of market forces (I.e. what consumers prefer)

aporetics 3y ago

As though marketing never influences what people want.

ethbr1 3y ago

> Carmakers build what sells. Eh, they build what makes them the most profit. That's a much more complicated can of worms than what sells. It includes tax policy, rebates, financing rates, mileage standards, engine technology costs, etc.

mbostleman 3y ago
If enough people wanted the same cars as the Vox author wants, they’d be made.
- Sabinus 3y ago
  Not if you set up the market such that other cars are significantly cheaper. The market is only free to respond to demand when an intersection of demand and regulation makes it economical.

OtherShrezzing 3y ago

That's not the case in Europe though. Lots of people in Europe have exactly two preferences when purchasing a vehicle: low price, and good fuel economy. All of Europe's best selling cars in 2022[1] fit either or both of those criteria. Europe has a strongly revealed culturally-ingrained preference towards economical cars. [1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/1127929/best-selling-car-models-in-europe-by-units-sold/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/1127929/best-selling-car...

blibble 3y ago
it is the case, the average european car is becoming a ridiculous SUV/pickup too the rate of increase in mass of european cars is now greater than that of the US
mytailorisrich 3y ago
Cars in Europe are becoming, and have already become, massive as well. Preference towards economical cars does not mean any of my previous comment isn't true. At some point cars are economical enough and other features become a better selling point in the market instead of absolute best possible fuel economy.

mitthrowaway2 3y ago

Are you saying that the reasons in the article are incorrect, and what happened was a change in customer preferences?

voisin 3y ago

> Carmakers build what sells. This is only true when carmakers are sufficiently experimenting and letting customers decide what sells, but when they all make extremely similar products in each category, it isn’t true. For examples look at the truck category - in North America at least, there is effectively no way to get a truck that is not loaded with electronics and silly features as the makers stopped competing on anything else. There is no “light weight, utilitarian build” truck that can be bought. And magically they all have super high hoods and massive interiors. The same is true in every category I have looked at.

rcpt 3y ago
Vans
- voisin 3y ago
  Minivans? Work vans? Where’s the experimentation? They all seem to compete on the same narrow list of metrics leading to homogenization of the product category. So it isn’t “we build what sells” but rather “customers need to buy and we define what’s available quite narrowly”
  - piva00 3y ago
    Work vans in Europe have quite some variety to choose from, usually the segment is divided in 3 sizes: small ones based on compact cars chassis, a mid-size and larger ones with the chassis adaptable from a box van to a mini-truck, even with the possibility to exchange part of the rear for a bed truck. Some brands have an extended version for the mid/larger sizes, either to accommodate more passengers, have larger boxes or to fit a box truck enclosure on the back.
    - voisin 3y ago
      > in Europe That’s the difference. I am writing from a North American perspective and I am often jealous of the seemingly endless variety of options available elsewhere in the world. Just know that we North Americans aren’t necessarily choosing to buy the giant trucks - in many cases we would love smaller options but they don’t exist.

Zpalmtree 3y ago

Exactly. This article is all over the place. It's the tariffs making americans buy SUVs, european cars are too expensive! Then they complain that a tax increase on SUV owners in DC was opposed? They clearly don't want Americans to have cheaper cars - just force people to use the cars they think are 'correct'. Gotta save the environment, who cares about the consumer?

eddd-ddde 3y ago

Drugs sell really good yet we have laws against that. Maybe some regulation on what a car company can sell would be good.