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I think the primary point here is that interruptions don't only happen externally, but also internally. I think this point is a bit obscured by the article's us

I think the primary point here is that interruptions don't only happen externally, but also internally. I think this point is a bit obscured by the article's use of this "fragmented thinking" terminology, which it does not do a good job of defining before building an argument on top of it. (I found myself searching for those words to see if I had missed the definition.) However, I do think this is an insightful point! I think these "internal interruptions" are indeed a big problem for me, and one I don't think about nearly as much, but will try to more now that I've read this article. The frustrating thing about external interruptions is the inability to control them. Things like turning off notifications and putting on headphones are mechanisms to reduce that frustration by imposing control over those interruptions. The good news for these internal interruptions is that it should be much easier to control them. But it requires being aware of the problem! So I'm thankful to this article for making this more top of mind for me.

Swizec 3y ago
> The good news for these internal interruptions is that it should be much easier to control them Just get good sleep, great nutrition, enough exercise, and remove all stressors from your life. How hard can it be!? Yes really that’s the source/cause of most internal distractions.
- sanderjd 3y ago
  I think this is true, but I was also thinking about more specific things. Like identifying, "ok, what do I commonly do in my own workflow that interrupts me from what I'm working on". In another comment I used the example of wanting to see the results of something I just did, but having to wait for something that executes slowly. Another example of something I'm guilty of is going down premature refactoring rabbit holes. But all of the general good mental health stuff you mentioned helps maintain the right focused mental state to introspect about where you're getting interrupted, figuring out how to avoid those things, and then actually avoiding them.
- manicdee 3y ago
  Ha ha yeah. Let me just remove all that childhood trauma and PTSD, then we'll get this train of thought right back on track. Why didn't I think of that sooner?
erikerikson 3y ago
Yes, the headline term was never truly defined for use. Past the headline it didn't get used until almost half way through and then assumed you knew what was meant by it. Only near the end were there hints as to what the writer was referencing. Good job pulling out a very plausible interpretation though. We talk about this in our dev meetings and attempt to proactively identify and resolve sources. Having well defined and coherent contexts improved our work and the emotional experiences of doing it. This has been helping me recapture the joy of coding. Shouldn't have taken starting a company fellow business leaders.
Tainnor 3y ago
> The frustrating thing about external interruptions is the inability to control them. [...] The good news for these internal interruptions is that it should be much easier to control them. Interestingly, I feel the exact opposite. I'm aware that it's not always possible or socially acceptable to do so, but at least in theory you can always make a choice to ignore or tune out other people. Ignoring the stuff that is going on in your own head is IMHO much harder.
- sanderjd 3y ago
  Yeah I clearly worded this poorly. What I meant to say is that it should be much easier to control only the internal interruptions, compared to the necessity to control both the external ones and the internal ones. That is, the existence of external interruptions doesn't make the internal ones go away, they're just additive on top, which can only make things more difficult.
justinpombrio 3y ago
> The good news for these internal interruptions is that it should be much easier to control them. For a long-time meditator, this is comedic gold. Just control your internal interruptions, stay focused. That's all, eh? Hehehehehe
- Terr_ 3y ago
  "My boss is always interrupting me with questions, and the office is very noisy. There's no easy fix for either of those external things, so you're lucky that all you have to deal with is internal ADHD and tinnitus!" /s
  - sanderjd 3y ago
    But you still have to deal with those internal issues in a noisy distracting office! Being interrupted more by other people doesn't make it easier to manage internal struggles, it is a strictly additive difficulty.
    - TeMPOraL 3y ago
      Point is, external interruptions are trivial to deal with compared to internal struggles. You can wear ANC headphones in the office and negotiate focus time with your boss. You can change your boss, or your job, or restructure your work around interruptions. Point is, you have options that are sure to work, and tend to not require much upkeep; many are just "fire and forget" fixes. That's almost never the case with internal struggles. You can't negotiate your ADHD away. There's no mental "ANC headphones" equivalent to shut the bees buzzing in your head up. You're lucky if the problem is something that responds to pharmacotherapy. That means there's actually something you can do to fix it that has even a snowball's chance in hell of working.
      - sanderjd 3y ago
        I really think "trivial" is massive hyperbole here. Like most people commenting here, I have deep struggles with my own mind, I relate extremely strongly to all the things people are saying here about this. But things like negotiating across a power imbalance, finding and switching managers, teams, groups, switching jobs entirely... these are not trivial things! These are also extremely stressful things for which I don't think the word "trivial" gets anywhere near being an appropriate word choice.
hinkley 3y ago
I spent a long time thinking about why I always end up being the guy that people feel comfortable interrupting. I’m never the nicest guy in the office, I’m not always the cleverest, especially when I’m trying to do something else. But I do seem to recover better from external distractions than most people. Mostly because my life is a constant struggle against internal distractions, so my coping mechanisms are more evolved.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
aantix 3y ago
I use Cold Turkey to block my habbit of scrolling time-wasting sites when I should be reflecting harder on what it is needed to solve the issue at hand. https://getcoldturkey.com/ https://getcoldturkey.com/ It's almost like I need some mental space, to meditate on the solution, but that feels exhausting, so I choose sometimes to mindlessly scroll. Any other tools that I may be missing?
- hackerlight 3y ago
  An alternative is to add URLs to /etc/hosts like this to block them: 127.0.0.1 tiktok.com 127.0.0.1 www.tiktok.com Then use ublock origin extension to pare down features on sites you still visit, and an RSS reader app to slow down media consumption.
tonyarkles 3y ago
> I think this point is a bit obscured by the article's use of this "fragmented thinking" terminology, which does not do a good job of defining before building an argument on top of it. I totally agree with you that the article didn't explicitly define it, but I had the opposite experience reading it. For me, sans definition, could very quickly imagine what they were talking about because it started resonating for me almost immediately. > The frustrating thing about external interruptions is the inability to control them. Things like turning off notifications and putting on headphones are mechanisms to reduce that frustration by imposing control over those interruptions. This is partly why it started resonating for me right away. I currently share a semi-private office with another senior engineer. Lately he's been spending a good chunk of his time working on higher-level systems planning work and I've been spending most of my time working on very specific complex low-level work. The questions are sometimes frustrating because they'll interrupt my flow state, but... only sometimes. I've been chewing on that for a couple of weeks now, actually, because I hadn't yet figured out why he could sometimes ask me questions and it would have almost zero effect on me while other times it would have a massive negative effect. The article nailed it, on reflection: the effect size of being interrupted with a question, for me, is proportional to how far away from the problem I'm working on is. If I'm digging into some of the autopilot code and get asked a question about GPS or IMUs, it is absolutely no problem to think about the question and answer it. If, though, it's a question about, say, a battery or the charging system, I'll get the "black cloud evaporating" phenomenon from the comic in the article. And it happens so quickly that by time I can even just answer "sorry, I don't have brain capacity to think about that right now" it's too late.
justanotherjoe 3y ago
I am under the impression that its harder to control internal interruptions. Like the quote from st.augustine, 'the mind commands the body and it obeys. The mind commands itself and meets resistance.'
bdjsiqoocwk 3y ago
I agree it's an insightful point, I just wish there were more examples. As far as I can tell there's one single example, the commit message.
sesm 3y ago
Regarding internal interruptions, classic Pomodoro technique (the one with a kitchen timer and a sheet of paper) deals with them this way: there is an 'interruptions' section on the sheet, and whenever an interrupting thought occurs, it's written down to that section and a dot is put above current Pomodoro. This way one is confident that no important ideas are missed and also can track the number of interruptions per Pomodoro.
wuj 3y ago
Tying this to one of the author's arguments: Many internal interruptions occur because of the type of work we are doing is not right. I find myself distracted when my task is too complex, vague, or limiting. The task needs to have the right balance of difficulty and creativity to make it "flow-statable".

Swizec 3y ago

> The good news for these internal interruptions is that it should be much easier to control them Just get good sleep, great nutrition, enough exercise, and remove all stressors from your life. How hard can it be!? Yes really that’s the source/cause of most internal distractions.

sanderjd 3y ago
I think this is true, but I was also thinking about more specific things. Like identifying, "ok, what do I commonly do in my own workflow that interrupts me from what I'm working on". In another comment I used the example of wanting to see the results of something I just did, but having to wait for something that executes slowly. Another example of something I'm guilty of is going down premature refactoring rabbit holes. But all of the general good mental health stuff you mentioned helps maintain the right focused mental state to introspect about where you're getting interrupted, figuring out how to avoid those things, and then actually avoiding them.
manicdee 3y ago
Ha ha yeah. Let me just remove all that childhood trauma and PTSD, then we'll get this train of thought right back on track. Why didn't I think of that sooner?

erikerikson 3y ago

Yes, the headline term was never truly defined for use. Past the headline it didn't get used until almost half way through and then assumed you knew what was meant by it. Only near the end were there hints as to what the writer was referencing. Good job pulling out a very plausible interpretation though. We talk about this in our dev meetings and attempt to proactively identify and resolve sources. Having well defined and coherent contexts improved our work and the emotional experiences of doing it. This has been helping me recapture the joy of coding. Shouldn't have taken starting a company fellow business leaders.

Tainnor 3y ago

> The frustrating thing about external interruptions is the inability to control them. [...] The good news for these internal interruptions is that it should be much easier to control them. Interestingly, I feel the exact opposite. I'm aware that it's not always possible or socially acceptable to do so, but at least in theory you can always make a choice to ignore or tune out other people. Ignoring the stuff that is going on in your own head is IMHO much harder.

sanderjd 3y ago
Yeah I clearly worded this poorly. What I meant to say is that it should be much easier to control only the internal interruptions, compared to the necessity to control both the external ones and the internal ones. That is, the existence of external interruptions doesn't make the internal ones go away, they're just additive on top, which can only make things more difficult.

justinpombrio 3y ago

> The good news for these internal interruptions is that it should be much easier to control them. For a long-time meditator, this is comedic gold. Just control your internal interruptions, stay focused. That's all, eh? Hehehehehe

Terr_ 3y ago
"My boss is always interrupting me with questions, and the office is very noisy. There's no easy fix for either of those external things, so you're lucky that all you have to deal with is internal ADHD and tinnitus!" /s
- sanderjd 3y ago
  But you still have to deal with those internal issues in a noisy distracting office! Being interrupted more by other people doesn't make it easier to manage internal struggles, it is a strictly additive difficulty.
  - TeMPOraL 3y ago
    Point is, external interruptions are trivial to deal with compared to internal struggles. You can wear ANC headphones in the office and negotiate focus time with your boss. You can change your boss, or your job, or restructure your work around interruptions. Point is, you have options that are sure to work, and tend to not require much upkeep; many are just "fire and forget" fixes. That's almost never the case with internal struggles. You can't negotiate your ADHD away. There's no mental "ANC headphones" equivalent to shut the bees buzzing in your head up. You're lucky if the problem is something that responds to pharmacotherapy. That means there's actually something you can do to fix it that has even a snowball's chance in hell of working.
    - sanderjd 3y ago
      I really think "trivial" is massive hyperbole here. Like most people commenting here, I have deep struggles with my own mind, I relate extremely strongly to all the things people are saying here about this. But things like negotiating across a power imbalance, finding and switching managers, teams, groups, switching jobs entirely... these are not trivial things! These are also extremely stressful things for which I don't think the word "trivial" gets anywhere near being an appropriate word choice.

hinkley 3y ago

I spent a long time thinking about why I always end up being the guy that people feel comfortable interrupting. I’m never the nicest guy in the office, I’m not always the cleverest, especially when I’m trying to do something else. But I do seem to recover better from external distractions than most people. Mostly because my life is a constant struggle against internal distractions, so my coping mechanisms are more evolved.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

aantix 3y ago

I use Cold Turkey to block my habbit of scrolling time-wasting sites when I should be reflecting harder on what it is needed to solve the issue at hand. https://getcoldturkey.com/ https://getcoldturkey.com/ It's almost like I need some mental space, to meditate on the solution, but that feels exhausting, so I choose sometimes to mindlessly scroll. Any other tools that I may be missing?

hackerlight 3y ago
An alternative is to add URLs to /etc/hosts like this to block them: 127.0.0.1 tiktok.com 127.0.0.1 www.tiktok.com Then use ublock origin extension to pare down features on sites you still visit, and an RSS reader app to slow down media consumption.

tonyarkles 3y ago

> I think this point is a bit obscured by the article's use of this "fragmented thinking" terminology, which does not do a good job of defining before building an argument on top of it. I totally agree with you that the article didn't explicitly define it, but I had the opposite experience reading it. For me, sans definition, could very quickly imagine what they were talking about because it started resonating for me almost immediately. > The frustrating thing about external interruptions is the inability to control them. Things like turning off notifications and putting on headphones are mechanisms to reduce that frustration by imposing control over those interruptions. This is partly why it started resonating for me right away. I currently share a semi-private office with another senior engineer. Lately he's been spending a good chunk of his time working on higher-level systems planning work and I've been spending most of my time working on very specific complex low-level work. The questions are sometimes frustrating because they'll interrupt my flow state, but... only sometimes. I've been chewing on that for a couple of weeks now, actually, because I hadn't yet figured out why he could sometimes ask me questions and it would have almost zero effect on me while other times it would have a massive negative effect. The article nailed it, on reflection: the effect size of being interrupted with a question, for me, is proportional to how far away from the problem I'm working on is. If I'm digging into some of the autopilot code and get asked a question about GPS or IMUs, it is absolutely no problem to think about the question and answer it. If, though, it's a question about, say, a battery or the charging system, I'll get the "black cloud evaporating" phenomenon from the comic in the article. And it happens so quickly that by time I can even just answer "sorry, I don't have brain capacity to think about that right now" it's too late.

justanotherjoe 3y ago

I am under the impression that its harder to control internal interruptions. Like the quote from st.augustine, 'the mind commands the body and it obeys. The mind commands itself and meets resistance.'

bdjsiqoocwk 3y ago

I agree it's an insightful point, I just wish there were more examples. As far as I can tell there's one single example, the commit message.

sesm 3y ago

Regarding internal interruptions, classic Pomodoro technique (the one with a kitchen timer and a sheet of paper) deals with them this way: there is an 'interruptions' section on the sheet, and whenever an interrupting thought occurs, it's written down to that section and a dot is put above current Pomodoro. This way one is confident that no important ideas are missed and also can track the number of interruptions per Pomodoro.

wuj 3y ago

Tying this to one of the author's arguments: Many internal interruptions occur because of the type of work we are doing is not right. I find myself distracted when my task is too complex, vague, or limiting. The task needs to have the right balance of difficulty and creativity to make it "flow-statable".