5 ms·

Even Portland now is banning camping, part of the West Coast retreat

26 points by wallflower 2y ago

helpfulfrond 2y ago
https://archive.is/TXPNV https://archive.is/TXPNV
washedup 2y ago
I think this gets to a larger national economic issue: things aren’t great for most people, and when things get really bad, you move somewhere nice. The many programs developed to tackle homelessness have been built around specific budgets/goals/KPIs, and are not able to handle the continuous migration of people with nowhere to go, and inherently political. I’m sure most politicians mean well. Sure, migration trends, especially for CA say otherwise.. but there is a large swath of people that governing bodies are bad at tracking. TLDR: another example of poorly designed government intervention due to misunderstanding of the dynamics behind the process (homelessness)
- zingelshuher 2y ago
  > poorly designed government intervention due to misunderstanding of the dynamics behind the process (homelessness) Major drive is easy to understand, just cross the border and you are homeless on full support. Millions did with the help of dems, future voters. No language, no jobs, no skills. Of course they will vote for free food if they get this option. I.e. for dems, which was the whole idea.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - amanaplanacanal 2y ago
    Are you saying that most of the homeless are immigrants? And that immigrants are somehow allowed to vote?
    - willcipriano 2y ago
      Are you saying that the open border is unintentional and somewhere between Trump leaving and Biden taking office (probably the moment the "kids in cages" became "minor detention facilities") the border patrol suddenly became incompetent?
      - vaidhy 2y ago
        How about answer the question instead of asking something irrelevant?
- cyanydeez 2y ago
  Its poorly designed for a reason: it does not address the wealth gap, exacerbated by landlord price fixing and.home ownership by corporate speculators.
Tiktaalik 2y ago
Fundamentally the core problem is that no one wants to spend the money to get real traction on these issues, which would require create affordable housing, and even more expensive than that treatment beds for persons enduring drug addiction. The additional problem of course being that there’s a shortage of doctors and nurses to work at hypothetical treatment centers that don’t exist. So because no one wants to spend any money the only option left is harm reduction measures because they’re more affordable. Problem being of course is that harm reduction is no solution in its self, and the point is merely to prevent death while people await the aid of actual solutions. There is now a voter backlash against harm reduction because no one sees anything improving and they’ve been convinced by disingenuous media that it was harm reduction itself that was the problem, not the complete disinterest in building affordable housing and treatment beds. Voters need to wake up and recognize that they need to pay for solutions. I don’t expect this will happen however. Opposition parties will slag the status quo and say they’ll do other things, but then immediately do nothing once in power when they realize the cost. Been seeing it my whole life living here.
- blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
  I don’t think what’s happening in west coast cities is going to be solved by paying for anything - whether it is housing or rehab or whatever. A lot of people at these unsanctioned encampments are anti social and want that lifestyle of drug addiction. They refuse services and also refuse to work. They don’t care about taking up spaces meant for other things, or destroying public bathrooms, or stealing, etc. If they’re facing no consequences they’ll keep impacting everyone else. I know this isn’t true about everyone but I would say it’s true of many. I’m no longer a believe in the compassion first approach and now think a tough approach is more effective, even if it’s not perfect.
  - pjc50 2y ago
    People aren't born like this, and a solution of "wait for them to die" seems neither effective nor humane.
    - 2y ago
starkparker 2y ago
"Even Portland"? Ted Wheeler has been trying to ban camping, or taking steps to effectively circumvent county and state attempts that prohibited him from banning camping, for _years_ now. He's been gunning for it for both of his terms and keeps failing to get anywhere. First of all, Portland tried to regulate daytime tent camping in 2016. It failed after six months. Wheeler ran for mayor that year saying he would solve homelessness; through both of his terms, it's gotten steadily worse. The current camping ban idea first came up in 2022: https://apnews.com/article/health-ted-wheeler-oregon-portland-government-and-politics-144ba78f2c5003aabaaea7be6281f412 https://apnews.com/article/health-ted-wheeler-oregon-portlan... He then proposed 1,000-person indoor mass shelters in 2022. That failed when the state refused to fund it, with everyone from homeless advocates to commissioners who endorsed him having predicted that it would at best fail and at worst exacerbate the problem: https://www.oregonlive.com/news/2022/02/portland-mayor-now-seeks-to-relocate-homeless-campers-to-designated-locations-not-massive-indoor-shelters.html https://www.oregonlive.com/news/2022/02/portland-mayor-now-s... He experimented with closing a homeless campsite at a public park for plans to build pickleball courts and a skate park: https://nypost.com/2022/11/03/portland-mayor-ted-wheeler-removes-homeless-camps-begins-construction-on-pickleball-courts/ https://nypost.com/2022/11/03/portland-mayor-ted-wheeler-rem... (It didn't work; the camps predictably returned within months: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVnVnMeKcfQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVnVnMeKcfQ) He tried to enact his camping ban and build state-funded outdoor concentration camps staffed by the National Guard in 2023. The state and county refused to fund them: https://www.oregonlive.com/politics/2023/03/portlands-mass-tent-camps-ineligible-for-millions-in-state-metro-homelessness-funds-mayor-ted-wheeler-complains.html https://www.oregonlive.com/politics/2023/03/portlands-mass-t... The current ban proposal was first drafted after that failure. Due to the lack of anyone wanting to be associated with the plan, Wheeler planned to spend $27 million of city's own funds on three of his own designated outdoor shelter cities: https://www.oregonlive.com/politics/2023/02/mayor-ted-wheeler-says-he-is-made-for-this-moment-can-he-convince-portland.html https://www.oregonlive.com/politics/2023/02/mayor-ted-wheele... (While all of that was happening, the city under Wheeler has had near-weekly police-backed camp sweeps, a prototype for the ban where city contractors tear down the camp, confiscate property, and offer shelter options that don't have capacity or are often unsuitable for families, the mentally ill, or people with addictions. Some people have been relocated dozens of times: https://www.kgw.com/article/news/local/homeless/portland-homeless-camp-removals/283-05437602-7b67-43a8-b9ec-75d664809f75 https://www.kgw.com/article/news/local/homeless/portland-hom...) The proposed law issues fines with or without jail time if you refuse to accept a shelter offer. But even now there aren't enough shelter beds for the people who are already voluntarily seeking them: https://www.kgw.com/article/news/local/homeless/portland-multnomah-county-joint-office-homeless-services-audit-shelter/283-fa445870-161e-4696-befe-c379ef299f30 https://www.kgw.com/article/news/local/homeless/portland-mul... So homeless people will end up going to jail one way or another. They can't afford housing, so they sure as shit can't afford lawyers. What does Oregon also have a chronic shortage of? Public defenders, which Oregon doesn't employ but contracts out (with caseload maximums): https://www.wweek.com/news/2024/01/24/record-numbers-of-people-face-criminal-charges-in-multnomah-county-with-no-defense-attorney/ https://www.wweek.com/news/2024/01/24/record-numbers-of-peop... And if one can't be provided in seven days, a federal court rules that the offender has to be released: https://www.opb.org/article/2023/11/09/oregon-public-defender-shortage-supreme-court-law-courts-crime/ https://www.opb.org/article/2023/11/09/oregon-public-defende... A lot of this is also being pushed by one commissioner who's aggressively and loudly seeking the mayor's office and using this law to get attention: https://www.opb.org/article/2024/04/17/camping-ban-portland-rene-gonzalez/ https://www.opb.org/article/2024/04/17/camping-ban-portland-... (He's also maybe the least politically savvy guy to run for this office here in a while, which is already a stupendously low bar: https://www.kgw.com/article/news/local/rene-gonzalez-trimet-max-video-accosted-threats/283-cf262a83-0793-4316-82af-ff369a716014 https://www.kgw.com/article/news/local/rene-gonzalez-trimet-...) His first proposal would've given the mayor total control over the ban, which would be himself if he wins the election: https://www.wweek.com/news/2024/04/17/gonzalez-seeks-to-put-all-rule-making-power-of-camping-ban-under-future-mayor/ https://www.wweek.com/news/2024/04/17/gonzalez-seeks-to-put-... (And we know he'll fit in great as mayor because his proposal failed two days later: https://www.wweek.com/news/city/2024/04/19/gonzalez-pares-back-camping-ban-proposal/ https://www.wweek.com/news/city/2024/04/19/gonzalez-pares-ba...) Anyway, the mayoral and commissioner efforts have been so poorly received for so long, with no improvement in sight, that voters threw the entire city government charter out the window in 2022 in favor of ranked-choice voting and a more traditional city council system: https://www.portland.gov/transition/news/2022/11/9/portland-voters-approve-charter-reform-city-launches-transition https://www.portland.gov/transition/news/2022/11/9/portland-... That won't solve any problems, but fuck if anyone here seems to know what would. (Did I mention that Oregon is a "kicker" state? As in we get individual tax refunds when the state has a budget surplus? There's been one every two years since 2014. The state never has the money to house the homeless, whether in or beyond Portland, except for the _$10 billion_ returned over the last 10 years — $5.6 billion this tax season alone, most of which wasn't even claimed as of a month ago — because this incompetent state legislature can't budget to save its fucking life.)
oldpersonintx 2y ago
[dead]

26 points by wallflower 2y ago

https://archive.is/TXPNV https://archive.is/TXPNV

I think this gets to a larger national economic issue: things aren’t great for most people, and when things get really bad, you move somewhere nice. The many programs developed to tackle homelessness have been built around specific budgets/goals/KPIs, and are not able to handle the continuous migration of people with nowhere to go, and inherently political. I’m sure most politicians mean well. Sure, migration trends, especially for CA say otherwise.. but there is a large swath of people that governing bodies are bad at tracking. TLDR: another example of poorly designed government intervention due to misunderstanding of the dynamics behind the process (homelessness)

zingelshuher 2y ago
> poorly designed government intervention due to misunderstanding of the dynamics behind the process (homelessness) Major drive is easy to understand, just cross the border and you are homeless on full support. Millions did with the help of dems, future voters. No language, no jobs, no skills. Of course they will vote for free food if they get this option. I.e. for dems, which was the whole idea.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- amanaplanacanal 2y ago
  Are you saying that most of the homeless are immigrants? And that immigrants are somehow allowed to vote?
  - willcipriano 2y ago
    Are you saying that the open border is unintentional and somewhere between Trump leaving and Biden taking office (probably the moment the "kids in cages" became "minor detention facilities") the border patrol suddenly became incompetent?
    - vaidhy 2y ago
      How about answer the question instead of asking something irrelevant?
cyanydeez 2y ago
Its poorly designed for a reason: it does not address the wealth gap, exacerbated by landlord price fixing and.home ownership by corporate speculators.

Tiktaalik 2y ago

Fundamentally the core problem is that no one wants to spend the money to get real traction on these issues, which would require create affordable housing, and even more expensive than that treatment beds for persons enduring drug addiction. The additional problem of course being that there’s a shortage of doctors and nurses to work at hypothetical treatment centers that don’t exist. So because no one wants to spend any money the only option left is harm reduction measures because they’re more affordable. Problem being of course is that harm reduction is no solution in its self, and the point is merely to prevent death while people await the aid of actual solutions. There is now a voter backlash against harm reduction because no one sees anything improving and they’ve been convinced by disingenuous media that it was harm reduction itself that was the problem, not the complete disinterest in building affordable housing and treatment beds. Voters need to wake up and recognize that they need to pay for solutions. I don’t expect this will happen however. Opposition parties will slag the status quo and say they’ll do other things, but then immediately do nothing once in power when they realize the cost. Been seeing it my whole life living here.

blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
I don’t think what’s happening in west coast cities is going to be solved by paying for anything - whether it is housing or rehab or whatever. A lot of people at these unsanctioned encampments are anti social and want that lifestyle of drug addiction. They refuse services and also refuse to work. They don’t care about taking up spaces meant for other things, or destroying public bathrooms, or stealing, etc. If they’re facing no consequences they’ll keep impacting everyone else. I know this isn’t true about everyone but I would say it’s true of many. I’m no longer a believe in the compassion first approach and now think a tough approach is more effective, even if it’s not perfect.
- pjc50 2y ago
  People aren't born like this, and a solution of "wait for them to die" seems neither effective nor humane.
  - 2y ago

starkparker 2y ago

"Even Portland"? Ted Wheeler has been trying to ban camping, or taking steps to effectively circumvent county and state attempts that prohibited him from banning camping, for _years_ now. He's been gunning for it for both of his terms and keeps failing to get anywhere. First of all, Portland tried to regulate daytime tent camping in 2016. It failed after six months. Wheeler ran for mayor that year saying he would solve homelessness; through both of his terms, it's gotten steadily worse. The current camping ban idea first came up in 2022: https://apnews.com/article/health-ted-wheeler-oregon-portland-government-and-politics-144ba78f2c5003aabaaea7be6281f412 https://apnews.com/article/health-ted-wheeler-oregon-portlan... He then proposed 1,000-person indoor mass shelters in 2022. That failed when the state refused to fund it, with everyone from homeless advocates to commissioners who endorsed him having predicted that it would at best fail and at worst exacerbate the problem: https://www.oregonlive.com/news/2022/02/portland-mayor-now-seeks-to-relocate-homeless-campers-to-designated-locations-not-massive-indoor-shelters.html https://www.oregonlive.com/news/2022/02/portland-mayor-now-s... He experimented with closing a homeless campsite at a public park for plans to build pickleball courts and a skate park: https://nypost.com/2022/11/03/portland-mayor-ted-wheeler-removes-homeless-camps-begins-construction-on-pickleball-courts/ https://nypost.com/2022/11/03/portland-mayor-ted-wheeler-rem... (It didn't work; the camps predictably returned within months: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVnVnMeKcfQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVnVnMeKcfQ) He tried to enact his camping ban and build state-funded outdoor concentration camps staffed by the National Guard in 2023. The state and county refused to fund them: https://www.oregonlive.com/politics/2023/03/portlands-mass-tent-camps-ineligible-for-millions-in-state-metro-homelessness-funds-mayor-ted-wheeler-complains.html https://www.oregonlive.com/politics/2023/03/portlands-mass-t... The current ban proposal was first drafted after that failure. Due to the lack of anyone wanting to be associated with the plan, Wheeler planned to spend $27 million of city's own funds on three of his own designated outdoor shelter cities: https://www.oregonlive.com/politics/2023/02/mayor-ted-wheeler-says-he-is-made-for-this-moment-can-he-convince-portland.html https://www.oregonlive.com/politics/2023/02/mayor-ted-wheele... (While all of that was happening, the city under Wheeler has had near-weekly police-backed camp sweeps, a prototype for the ban where city contractors tear down the camp, confiscate property, and offer shelter options that don't have capacity or are often unsuitable for families, the mentally ill, or people with addictions. Some people have been relocated dozens of times: https://www.kgw.com/article/news/local/homeless/portland-homeless-camp-removals/283-05437602-7b67-43a8-b9ec-75d664809f75 https://www.kgw.com/article/news/local/homeless/portland-hom...) The proposed law issues fines with or without jail time if you refuse to accept a shelter offer. But even now there aren't enough shelter beds for the people who are already voluntarily seeking them: https://www.kgw.com/article/news/local/homeless/portland-multnomah-county-joint-office-homeless-services-audit-shelter/283-fa445870-161e-4696-befe-c379ef299f30 https://www.kgw.com/article/news/local/homeless/portland-mul... So homeless people will end up going to jail one way or another. They can't afford housing, so they sure as shit can't afford lawyers. What does Oregon also have a chronic shortage of? Public defenders, which Oregon doesn't employ but contracts out (with caseload maximums): https://www.wweek.com/news/2024/01/24/record-numbers-of-people-face-criminal-charges-in-multnomah-county-with-no-defense-attorney/ https://www.wweek.com/news/2024/01/24/record-numbers-of-peop... And if one can't be provided in seven days, a federal court rules that the offender has to be released: https://www.opb.org/article/2023/11/09/oregon-public-defender-shortage-supreme-court-law-courts-crime/ https://www.opb.org/article/2023/11/09/oregon-public-defende... A lot of this is also being pushed by one commissioner who's aggressively and loudly seeking the mayor's office and using this law to get attention: https://www.opb.org/article/2024/04/17/camping-ban-portland-rene-gonzalez/ https://www.opb.org/article/2024/04/17/camping-ban-portland-... (He's also maybe the least politically savvy guy to run for this office here in a while, which is already a stupendously low bar: https://www.kgw.com/article/news/local/rene-gonzalez-trimet-max-video-accosted-threats/283-cf262a83-0793-4316-82af-ff369a716014 https://www.kgw.com/article/news/local/rene-gonzalez-trimet-...) His first proposal would've given the mayor total control over the ban, which would be himself if he wins the election: https://www.wweek.com/news/2024/04/17/gonzalez-seeks-to-put-all-rule-making-power-of-camping-ban-under-future-mayor/ https://www.wweek.com/news/2024/04/17/gonzalez-seeks-to-put-... (And we know he'll fit in great as mayor because his proposal failed two days later: https://www.wweek.com/news/city/2024/04/19/gonzalez-pares-back-camping-ban-proposal/ https://www.wweek.com/news/city/2024/04/19/gonzalez-pares-ba...) Anyway, the mayoral and commissioner efforts have been so poorly received for so long, with no improvement in sight, that voters threw the entire city government charter out the window in 2022 in favor of ranked-choice voting and a more traditional city council system: https://www.portland.gov/transition/news/2022/11/9/portland-voters-approve-charter-reform-city-launches-transition https://www.portland.gov/transition/news/2022/11/9/portland-... That won't solve any problems, but fuck if anyone here seems to know what would. (Did I mention that Oregon is a "kicker" state? As in we get individual tax refunds when the state has a budget surplus? There's been one every two years since 2014. The state never has the money to house the homeless, whether in or beyond Portland, except for the _$10 billion_ returned over the last 10 years — $5.6 billion this tax season alone, most of which wasn't even claimed as of a month ago — because this incompetent state legislature can't budget to save its fucking life.)

oldpersonintx 2y ago

[dead]