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By nagging every 30 seconds and giving you a strike against the account if you look away for more than a few seconds. Older cars dont have a cabin camera, but t

By nagging every 30 seconds and giving you a strike against the account if you look away for more than a few seconds. Older cars dont have a cabin camera, but the nags for newer vehicles are frequent. At some point you have to give liability to the end user or we can't have ADAS anymore. Which means we'll delay self driving for personal vehicles for many years, costing thousands of lives every year.

bdcravens 2y ago
For FSD or even AutoPilot?
- martindbp 2y ago
  Maybe just FSD.
sorokod 2y ago
At some point you have to give liability to the end user or we can't have ADAS anymore. Alternatively, the ADAS providers could take the liability on themselves. That would be a strong show of confidence and commitment to their technology and to saving lives.
- martindbp 2y ago
  What do you think would have happened to the automobile if Ford had to take liability for every accident? There will be a few years when FSD is worse than human drivers, and then it will be super human. But to get there you need data. Or you can go the slow route of Waymo, but delay this technology by 5 years and you've killed a great number of people, probably thousands. 40k die in car accidents every year in the US, only a handful of them are ADAS-related. Not only that, but Tesla releases statistics that show cars using autopilot have fewer accidents than those who don't. There may be issues with the data, but it's clear that it's not significantly worse.
  - sorokod 2y ago
    If Ford Model T was offered without a steering wheel, I am thinking jail time.
- dzhiurgis 2y ago
  Why focus on Tesla then? All but MB in some super tight scenario (maybe 1-5% of total) are not covering liability. Why moral panic around tesla? Why each time Tesla is mentioned this forum turns into some fascist bootlickers?
salawat 2y ago
The problem is the people developing these don't care about who gets endangered in the process of rolling it out. They care about being beneficiaries of the fiscal engine that creates it. I don't need moneygrubbers developing such a system.
Veserv 2y ago
Your comment is a prime example that operators are confused and unclear about how to operate the system. You call it a "nag", but the manual [1] clearly states: 1. Autosteer Bubble 1: "Keep your hands on the steering wheel at all times, be mindful of road conditions..." 2. Navigate on Autopilot Bubble 2: "Always keep your hands on the wheel and your eyes on the driving path in front of you" 3. Navigate on Autopilot Bubble 3: "keep your hands on the steering wheel at all times, and remain aware of your navigation route" 4. Autosteer on City Streets Bubble 2: "Keep your hands on the steering yoke (or steering wheel) at all times, be mindful of road conditions..." A system that requires hands on the wheel at all times for safe operation should, like a regular car which also requires hands on the wheel at all times, only have hands off the wheel for a few seconds at most. This warning is provided side-by-side with the warning to always pay attention and thus demands a similar degree of importance and adherence. A warning after 30 seconds of failing to operate the system safely is not a "nag". You are operating it incorrectly for a tremendous amount of time every time that warning occurs. In fact, it should generate after 1-3 seconds like the attention monitoring as it is something you must do at all times. They could remove that restriction by designing a system that does not require hands on the wheel at all times, but while that is a requirement it should be enforced correctly instead of enforced as a useless legal ass-covering afterthought. That you are confidently asserting the belief that you must take responsibility for attention, but the equally important requirement to keep hands on the wheel is viewed as a unnecessary nag, and repeatedly referenced and advertised as such by official spokespeople, shows you are fundamentally confused about the safe operation of the system and the commercial messaging about it is inherently confusing even to sophisticated operators. [1] https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/modelx/en_us/GUID-E5FF5E84-6AAC-43E6-B7ED-EC1E9AEB17B7.html https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/modelx/en_us/GUID-E5FF5E8...

bdcravens 2y ago

For FSD or even AutoPilot?

martindbp 2y ago
Maybe just FSD.

sorokod 2y ago

At some point you have to give liability to the end user or we can't have ADAS anymore. Alternatively, the ADAS providers could take the liability on themselves. That would be a strong show of confidence and commitment to their technology and to saving lives.

martindbp 2y ago
What do you think would have happened to the automobile if Ford had to take liability for every accident? There will be a few years when FSD is worse than human drivers, and then it will be super human. But to get there you need data. Or you can go the slow route of Waymo, but delay this technology by 5 years and you've killed a great number of people, probably thousands. 40k die in car accidents every year in the US, only a handful of them are ADAS-related. Not only that, but Tesla releases statistics that show cars using autopilot have fewer accidents than those who don't. There may be issues with the data, but it's clear that it's not significantly worse.
- sorokod 2y ago
  If Ford Model T was offered without a steering wheel, I am thinking jail time.
dzhiurgis 2y ago
Why focus on Tesla then? All but MB in some super tight scenario (maybe 1-5% of total) are not covering liability. Why moral panic around tesla? Why each time Tesla is mentioned this forum turns into some fascist bootlickers?

salawat 2y ago

The problem is the people developing these don't care about who gets endangered in the process of rolling it out. They care about being beneficiaries of the fiscal engine that creates it. I don't need moneygrubbers developing such a system.

Veserv 2y ago

Your comment is a prime example that operators are confused and unclear about how to operate the system. You call it a "nag", but the manual [1] clearly states: 1. Autosteer Bubble 1: "Keep your hands on the steering wheel at all times, be mindful of road conditions..." 2. Navigate on Autopilot Bubble 2: "Always keep your hands on the wheel and your eyes on the driving path in front of you" 3. Navigate on Autopilot Bubble 3: "keep your hands on the steering wheel at all times, and remain aware of your navigation route" 4. Autosteer on City Streets Bubble 2: "Keep your hands on the steering yoke (or steering wheel) at all times, be mindful of road conditions..." A system that requires hands on the wheel at all times for safe operation should, like a regular car which also requires hands on the wheel at all times, only have hands off the wheel for a few seconds at most. This warning is provided side-by-side with the warning to always pay attention and thus demands a similar degree of importance and adherence. A warning after 30 seconds of failing to operate the system safely is not a "nag". You are operating it incorrectly for a tremendous amount of time every time that warning occurs. In fact, it should generate after 1-3 seconds like the attention monitoring as it is something you must do at all times. They could remove that restriction by designing a system that does not require hands on the wheel at all times, but while that is a requirement it should be enforced correctly instead of enforced as a useless legal ass-covering afterthought. That you are confidently asserting the belief that you must take responsibility for attention, but the equally important requirement to keep hands on the wheel is viewed as a unnecessary nag, and repeatedly referenced and advertised as such by official spokespeople, shows you are fundamentally confused about the safe operation of the system and the commercial messaging about it is inherently confusing even to sophisticated operators. [1] https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/modelx/en_us/GUID-E5FF5E84-6AAC-43E6-B7ED-EC1E9AEB17B7.html https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/modelx/en_us/GUID-E5FF5E8...