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I want the aliens to be real so much. But even if it doesn't turn out to be aliens, these sorts of events present an opportunity to study and explore as-of-yet

I want the aliens to be real so much. But even if it doesn't turn out to be aliens, these sorts of events present an opportunity to study and explore as-of-yet unexplored or poorly understood phenomenon, which can be equally exciting. In particular, this example seems to be explained as follows: > In 2020, Justus completed an extensive study of the high-altitude barium release clouds, concluding that what Carter saw was "totally consistent" with what was launched that evening from Eglin AFB.[13] Justus described several physical aspects supporting consistency, and submitted a copy of the report for archival at the Jimmy Carter Library. And if we look up "Barium Tracer Cloud" on YouTube we can see images of what Jimmy Carter might've seen at the time, which has both a mundane explanation while being exceptionally magical in its own way. There's also additional images in the report PDF [1]. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUAqsxYJtHc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUAqsxYJtHc [1] https://figshare.com/articles/online_resource/What_Jimmy_Carter_Saw_pdf/12625238/1 https://figshare.com/articles/online_resource/What_Jimmy_Car...

chipdart 3y ago
> I want the aliens to be real so much. But even if it doesn't turn out to be aliens, these sorts of events present an opportunity to study and explore as-of-yet unexplored or poorly understood phenomenon, which can be equally exciting. One of the main reasons why the UFO crowd discredits itself is the way that the crazies in the community are overrepresented, and look at "this flying object is not identified" and automatically jump to the conclusion that not knowing something somehow means it definitely must support an outlandish mythology.
- Buttons840 3y ago
  "We can't be certain what it is, therefore, we are certain it is aliens." You're right, and it's funny thinking about it in more abstract terms. Being "unidentified" means we can't match it to any known phenomenon, to then jump to being certain it is aliens is silly.
  - keepamovin 3y ago
    Although this characterization does not represent a lot of the analyses, and I think it's silly to "homogenize" a group of people and misrepresent them via stereotype. Isn't that a definition of discrimination? That seems to be very silly. Haha! :) Anyway, analysis focuses on "5 unexplainable observables" like : lift without control surfaces, instant acceleration, low observability, hypersonics without signatures, transmedium travel. For a more serious introduction, see: https://www.uap.guide/ https://www.uap.guide/
    - chipdart 3y ago
      > Although this characterization does not represent a lot of the analyses, and I think it's silly to "homogenize" a group of people and misrepresent them via stereotype. You certainly aren't being serious. The term UFO has been so abused by crackpots and conspiracy loons that it managed to be synonymous with unbelievable reports of aliens.
      - revscat 3y ago
        I see this frequently asserted, but rarely substantiated.
      - keepamovin 3y ago
        Oh, I'm being serious. But the point about 'UFO' is different to the point about mischaracterizing people: which you seem to be doing. That seems to be an abusive thing, definitely.
        keepamovin 3y ago
        Also, I think the 'UFO' term is good. Detected on radar, probably means object. UAP is too nebulous possibly deliberately so to confuse. UFO's the better term I think. I honestly think the chracterization of people interested in that as 'crazy' or 'crackpot' is not only abusive, and stupid (and not serious), it's not true at all, I don't think it ever was. I think that idea is some kind of 'propaganda'. There has been an information war about this topic because the existence of a more powerful outside force directly challenges the authority of our Earth governments, so in the face of no other means to contest these things, they've sought to belittle interest in them to empower themselves. Controlling the narrative rather than the nuts and bolts. But the kind of abuse of the public is untrue, and like wartime propaganda against the Japanese as "they will eat your babies and take your women." The crazy thing is having that view, and the non serious thing is characterizing people like that. That's what I think, and I think that's the right way. I mean, you can't make progress on understanding something if you try to shame anyone who wants to talk about it, get interested in it or study it. Seriously tho, if you were an invading alien force wouldn't you want people to discount your existence as crazy? What better way to run cover for your infiltration? Hahaha! :) So the whole thing is bizarre but I think it's not profitable to go that way. It's only good to treat people well, and this topic is no exception. Not just for the reality of treating people well, but so we can study it properly. The serious way is to take it seriously. :) And what is better, seriously, than something that could help bring about a Star Trek future? Fucking cool I think. So I think people who bring a negativity or an abusiveness there are just projecting, either their own shit, or the shit that's been fed to them by propaganda. And if you really want to be a free thinker you just have to get outside of that. I think that's the best way to move forward on this. Positive and fun. open and curious. And lookin to the future and seein what we need to see as risk and opportunity. Yeah! :) Haha
- fnordsensei 3y ago
  At the same time, the supposedly rational opponents to this does everyone a disservice by judging all of it based on the loudest fraction of people. And then we can’t have scientific inquiry into anything, because baby/bathwater.
  - chipdart 3y ago
    > At the same time, the supposedly rational opponents to this does everyone a disservice by judging all of it based on the loudest fraction of people. Not really. The UFO community is synonymous with gullible crackpots and conspiracy loons. If the community wants to be take seriously, they themselves need to sort themselves out before they can expect to be taken seriously. It's the boy that cried alien.
    - david-gpu 3y ago
      > If the community wants to be take seriously, they themselves need to sort themselves out How do you propose we collectively do that? Appointing a UFO Pope and excommunicating the heretics? Yes, there are folks out there who see any dot in the sky doing anything they are vaguely unfamiliar with and jump to the conclusion that it must be a bona fide alien spaceship. However, this doesn't mean the UFO community is uniformly like that. Nor is the available evidence limited to bright dots in the sky, either. There will never be "scientific" evidence without scientists willing and funded to obtain it. And if we label every person with an interest on the subject as a "gullible crackpot and a conspiracy loon" then how likely is it that we will fund their research, and how unbiased are we to listen to the results of that research unless it fits exactly within the boundaries of our preconceived ideas of what is even possible. I don't have the answers to the UFO hypothesis. Never seen one, never want to see one either. But I appreciate any systematic effort to collect data of the objects in our skies and identify them. If nothing else, we will at least be protecting our airspace from foreign adversaries.
    - crispyambulance 3y ago
      > The UFO community is synonymous with gullible crackpots and conspiracy loons. It's worse than that. There's definitely a religious element to their beliefs. The UAP hearings last summer suggest that there's "UFO-believers" in leadership positions in the Department of defense. These people are SPENDING GOVERNMENT MONEY on insane fiascos and have been able to get a lot of attention lately. The AARO report (https://www.defense.gov/News/News-Stories/Article/Article/3701297/dod-report-discounts-sightings-of-extraterrestrial-technology/ https://www.defense.gov/News/News-Stories/Article/Article/37...) goes into detail. The sad thing is that some politicians have latched on to this and are using it to appease their conspiracy-laden constituencies.
- ipaddr 3y ago
  That's part of the campaign to discredit what others see and to encourage anyone who sees something to keep quiet.
  - blueflow 3y ago
    But who would do that? And why?
  - chipdart 3y ago
    > That's part of the campaign to discredit what others see and to encourage anyone who sees something to keep quiet. Here's the ugly crackpot conspiracy loons angle rearing it's head.
keepamovin 3y ago
The barium clouds in that video are a cool effect. Can that model explain the movement towards, then away from the group of witnesses? I guess wind, but is it so common for wind to blow clouds 1 way and then stop and then blow the other? Not a metrologist, don't know! Haha :) A good overview of "state of UAP" right now is: https://www.uap.guide/quotes/introduction https://www.uap.guide/quotes/introduction In addition, for fun, here's some other political figures (including some famous ones) and their UFO experiences: - Democrat presidential candidate Dennis Kucinich admits he saw a UFO during the 2007 debate: https://www.cleveland.com/openers/2007/10/kucinich_at_debate_i_did_see_a.html https://www.cleveland.com/openers/2007/10/kucinich_at_debate... - 40th US President Ronald Reagan was initially open about having been part of a group of passengers who witnessed a very fast UFO aboard an aircraft in 1974: https://science.howstuffworks.com/space/aliens-ufos/ronald-reagan-ufo.htm https://science.howstuffworks.com/space/aliens-ufos/ronald-r... - Army Gunner and Canadian parliamentary minister Paul Hellyer said he saw a UFO with his wife and friends: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Hellyer#Extraterrestrial_intelligence_claims https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Hellyer#Extraterrestrial_... - Arizona governor Fife Symington was among witnesses of the Phoenix lights: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fife_Symington#Phoenix_Lights https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fife_Symington#Phoenix_Lights - Kirsan Ilyumzhinov President of Kalmykia and head of World Chess Federation said he was show the inside of a UFO by NHIs: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirsan_Ilyumzhinov#UFO_experience https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirsan_Ilyumzhinov#UFO_experie...
- mtreis86 3y ago
  It is very common for the atmosphere to have wind blowing in multiple directions between the different layers, called shear. Usually the jet stream will be around 90 degrees offset from the layers above or below it. If you open up https://www.tropicaltidbits.com/analysis/models/?model=gfs https://www.tropicaltidbits.com/analysis/models/?model=gfs and click or select any region to get into the model sounding viewer, there will be wind direction barbs off to the right of the map that show the shear vertically.
  - keepamovin 3y ago
    Yes, I like that shear idea. But what I'm wondering is could a cloud from one layer move up then move in the other direction?? Thanks for the link! :)
barbariangrunge 3y ago
If there are super advanced aliens out there who can get to us, we are screwed. I for one want any aliens out there to be so far away they we can only maybe talk
klyrs 3y ago
For those of us who prefer text to youtube: a nice page that goes in-depth with nice pictures of barium tracers https://eos.org/science-updates/ionospheric-fireworks-illuminate-auroral-science https://eos.org/science-updates/ionospheric-fireworks-illumi...

chipdart 3y ago

> I want the aliens to be real so much. But even if it doesn't turn out to be aliens, these sorts of events present an opportunity to study and explore as-of-yet unexplored or poorly understood phenomenon, which can be equally exciting. One of the main reasons why the UFO crowd discredits itself is the way that the crazies in the community are overrepresented, and look at "this flying object is not identified" and automatically jump to the conclusion that not knowing something somehow means it definitely must support an outlandish mythology.

Buttons840 3y ago
"We can't be certain what it is, therefore, we are certain it is aliens." You're right, and it's funny thinking about it in more abstract terms. Being "unidentified" means we can't match it to any known phenomenon, to then jump to being certain it is aliens is silly.
- keepamovin 3y ago
  Although this characterization does not represent a lot of the analyses, and I think it's silly to "homogenize" a group of people and misrepresent them via stereotype. Isn't that a definition of discrimination? That seems to be very silly. Haha! :) Anyway, analysis focuses on "5 unexplainable observables" like : lift without control surfaces, instant acceleration, low observability, hypersonics without signatures, transmedium travel. For a more serious introduction, see: https://www.uap.guide/ https://www.uap.guide/
  - chipdart 3y ago
    > Although this characterization does not represent a lot of the analyses, and I think it's silly to "homogenize" a group of people and misrepresent them via stereotype. You certainly aren't being serious. The term UFO has been so abused by crackpots and conspiracy loons that it managed to be synonymous with unbelievable reports of aliens.
    - revscat 3y ago
      I see this frequently asserted, but rarely substantiated.
    - keepamovin 3y ago
      Oh, I'm being serious. But the point about 'UFO' is different to the point about mischaracterizing people: which you seem to be doing. That seems to be an abusive thing, definitely.
      - keepamovin 3y ago
        Also, I think the 'UFO' term is good. Detected on radar, probably means object. UAP is too nebulous possibly deliberately so to confuse. UFO's the better term I think. I honestly think the chracterization of people interested in that as 'crazy' or 'crackpot' is not only abusive, and stupid (and not serious), it's not true at all, I don't think it ever was. I think that idea is some kind of 'propaganda'. There has been an information war about this topic because the existence of a more powerful outside force directly challenges the authority of our Earth governments, so in the face of no other means to contest these things, they've sought to belittle interest in them to empower themselves. Controlling the narrative rather than the nuts and bolts. But the kind of abuse of the public is untrue, and like wartime propaganda against the Japanese as "they will eat your babies and take your women." The crazy thing is having that view, and the non serious thing is characterizing people like that. That's what I think, and I think that's the right way. I mean, you can't make progress on understanding something if you try to shame anyone who wants to talk about it, get interested in it or study it. Seriously tho, if you were an invading alien force wouldn't you want people to discount your existence as crazy? What better way to run cover for your infiltration? Hahaha! :) So the whole thing is bizarre but I think it's not profitable to go that way. It's only good to treat people well, and this topic is no exception. Not just for the reality of treating people well, but so we can study it properly. The serious way is to take it seriously. :) And what is better, seriously, than something that could help bring about a Star Trek future? Fucking cool I think. So I think people who bring a negativity or an abusiveness there are just projecting, either their own shit, or the shit that's been fed to them by propaganda. And if you really want to be a free thinker you just have to get outside of that. I think that's the best way to move forward on this. Positive and fun. open and curious. And lookin to the future and seein what we need to see as risk and opportunity. Yeah! :) Haha
fnordsensei 3y ago
At the same time, the supposedly rational opponents to this does everyone a disservice by judging all of it based on the loudest fraction of people. And then we can’t have scientific inquiry into anything, because baby/bathwater.
- chipdart 3y ago
  > At the same time, the supposedly rational opponents to this does everyone a disservice by judging all of it based on the loudest fraction of people. Not really. The UFO community is synonymous with gullible crackpots and conspiracy loons. If the community wants to be take seriously, they themselves need to sort themselves out before they can expect to be taken seriously. It's the boy that cried alien.
  - david-gpu 3y ago
    > If the community wants to be take seriously, they themselves need to sort themselves out How do you propose we collectively do that? Appointing a UFO Pope and excommunicating the heretics? Yes, there are folks out there who see any dot in the sky doing anything they are vaguely unfamiliar with and jump to the conclusion that it must be a bona fide alien spaceship. However, this doesn't mean the UFO community is uniformly like that. Nor is the available evidence limited to bright dots in the sky, either. There will never be "scientific" evidence without scientists willing and funded to obtain it. And if we label every person with an interest on the subject as a "gullible crackpot and a conspiracy loon" then how likely is it that we will fund their research, and how unbiased are we to listen to the results of that research unless it fits exactly within the boundaries of our preconceived ideas of what is even possible. I don't have the answers to the UFO hypothesis. Never seen one, never want to see one either. But I appreciate any systematic effort to collect data of the objects in our skies and identify them. If nothing else, we will at least be protecting our airspace from foreign adversaries.
  - crispyambulance 3y ago
    > The UFO community is synonymous with gullible crackpots and conspiracy loons. It's worse than that. There's definitely a religious element to their beliefs. The UAP hearings last summer suggest that there's "UFO-believers" in leadership positions in the Department of defense. These people are SPENDING GOVERNMENT MONEY on insane fiascos and have been able to get a lot of attention lately. The AARO report (https://www.defense.gov/News/News-Stories/Article/Article/3701297/dod-report-discounts-sightings-of-extraterrestrial-technology/ https://www.defense.gov/News/News-Stories/Article/Article/37...) goes into detail. The sad thing is that some politicians have latched on to this and are using it to appease their conspiracy-laden constituencies.
ipaddr 3y ago
That's part of the campaign to discredit what others see and to encourage anyone who sees something to keep quiet.
- blueflow 3y ago
  But who would do that? And why?
- chipdart 3y ago
  > That's part of the campaign to discredit what others see and to encourage anyone who sees something to keep quiet. Here's the ugly crackpot conspiracy loons angle rearing it's head.

keepamovin 3y ago

The barium clouds in that video are a cool effect. Can that model explain the movement towards, then away from the group of witnesses? I guess wind, but is it so common for wind to blow clouds 1 way and then stop and then blow the other? Not a metrologist, don't know! Haha :) A good overview of "state of UAP" right now is: https://www.uap.guide/quotes/introduction https://www.uap.guide/quotes/introduction In addition, for fun, here's some other political figures (including some famous ones) and their UFO experiences: - Democrat presidential candidate Dennis Kucinich admits he saw a UFO during the 2007 debate: https://www.cleveland.com/openers/2007/10/kucinich_at_debate_i_did_see_a.html https://www.cleveland.com/openers/2007/10/kucinich_at_debate... - 40th US President Ronald Reagan was initially open about having been part of a group of passengers who witnessed a very fast UFO aboard an aircraft in 1974: https://science.howstuffworks.com/space/aliens-ufos/ronald-reagan-ufo.htm https://science.howstuffworks.com/space/aliens-ufos/ronald-r... - Army Gunner and Canadian parliamentary minister Paul Hellyer said he saw a UFO with his wife and friends: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Hellyer#Extraterrestrial_intelligence_claims https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Hellyer#Extraterrestrial_... - Arizona governor Fife Symington was among witnesses of the Phoenix lights: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fife_Symington#Phoenix_Lights https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fife_Symington#Phoenix_Lights - Kirsan Ilyumzhinov President of Kalmykia and head of World Chess Federation said he was show the inside of a UFO by NHIs: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirsan_Ilyumzhinov#UFO_experience https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirsan_Ilyumzhinov#UFO_experie...

mtreis86 3y ago
It is very common for the atmosphere to have wind blowing in multiple directions between the different layers, called shear. Usually the jet stream will be around 90 degrees offset from the layers above or below it. If you open up https://www.tropicaltidbits.com/analysis/models/?model=gfs https://www.tropicaltidbits.com/analysis/models/?model=gfs and click or select any region to get into the model sounding viewer, there will be wind direction barbs off to the right of the map that show the shear vertically.
- keepamovin 3y ago
  Yes, I like that shear idea. But what I'm wondering is could a cloud from one layer move up then move in the other direction?? Thanks for the link! :)

barbariangrunge 3y ago

If there are super advanced aliens out there who can get to us, we are screwed. I for one want any aliens out there to be so far away they we can only maybe talk

klyrs 3y ago

For those of us who prefer text to youtube: a nice page that goes in-depth with nice pictures of barium tracers https://eos.org/science-updates/ionospheric-fireworks-illuminate-auroral-science https://eos.org/science-updates/ionospheric-fireworks-illumi...