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Most of the people I've seen that do have children are extremely miserable for the first couple thousand days and then moderately miserable for the next decade.

by kmarc 2y ago

Most of the people I've seen that do have children are extremely miserable for the first couple thousand days and then moderately miserable for the next decade. So what, probably our sample is not representative. My pet peeve is when parents tell me (or other people who can't actually have children), that "you'll never know until you haven't experienced it". I grew to think this is the most toxic behavior, triggering FOMO, overstepping boundaries and so on. Now that I saw these failed parenthoods, I understand that this toxicity comes from their own misery, to justify their life choices. Well, they'll never know how it is to explore the world and be happy and content on your own in your thirties-forties until they'll experi... Oh wait, they won't. And don't even get me started with the "at least you have a choice to adopt" line, which, since it's not YOUR BLOOD, doesn't count. All those looks on their faces... Sigh.

candiodari 2y ago
Look, not caring for anyone is always going to be easier than caring for someone. I think becoming a parent has helped me a lot in a million ways. You actually have a reason to advance, a reason to do stuff for others. It helps that there's just no way out. Plus I've been part of layoffs twice in about 20 years. Most things in life can and will collapse, including work, your social group at work (amongst other reasons because employers have somehow convinced employees of the "need" to keep secrets, resulting in a tension that will always be there when I work for one company and they work for another). Family doesn't collapse half as easily. The only friends I kept over 20 years I got in high school or at the latest university, and even that group is slowly bleeding dry.
- kmarc 2y ago
  > helped me a lot in a million ways Again, some people figured how to live a life with fulfilment, being content, having a purpose, but without a kid. In fact, what worries me a lot that some people think the kid is the ultimate solution. And that is really, really bad and unfair to many involved (family, partner, and eventually the kid themselves) > Family doesn't collapse half as easily You'd be surprised. Mine did, and in the region I'm from, did many, too. In fact, the modern invention of a nuclear family is more brittle than some want to accept. With truly a lot of sympathy, I encourage you too, to try to think outside your bubble. I am happy for each one of those around me who manage a life with their babies and new family. But this "you'll never know until" mentality is very toxic and the ones repeating it don't realize it's true vice versa. - - - All the other issues you mention (jobs, friends come and go) are also generalization, and certainly didn't apply to me or many others, thus, not a proof of anything.
  - michelsedgh 2y ago
    I think you don’t know anything in life until you try it. Goes both ways for having children and not having children. You won’t know until you’re old and then see if you are happy or not.
  - candiodari 2y ago
    > You'd be surprised. Mine did, and in the region I'm from, did many, too. In fact, the modern invention of a nuclear family is more brittle than some want to accept. I get it. Some families fail. People get really angry about that, and I understand why. That doesn't mean it will never succeed (and frankly, a failed family is imho, in quite a few ways, still better than no family at all). I'm pretty damn sure the "mass families", or however you want to call it, so big that kids only really had other kids as parents, that came before were a LOT worse than a nuclear family. My main point is that there's a strong motivation to keep a family going. And that is a huge part of what keeps me stable. I think it's a necessary part of keeping me stable.

by kmarc 2y ago

candiodari 2y ago

Look, not caring for anyone is always going to be easier than caring for someone. I think becoming a parent has helped me a lot in a million ways. You actually have a reason to advance, a reason to do stuff for others. It helps that there's just no way out. Plus I've been part of layoffs twice in about 20 years. Most things in life can and will collapse, including work, your social group at work (amongst other reasons because employers have somehow convinced employees of the "need" to keep secrets, resulting in a tension that will always be there when I work for one company and they work for another). Family doesn't collapse half as easily. The only friends I kept over 20 years I got in high school or at the latest university, and even that group is slowly bleeding dry.

kmarc 2y ago
> helped me a lot in a million ways Again, some people figured how to live a life with fulfilment, being content, having a purpose, but without a kid. In fact, what worries me a lot that some people think the kid is the ultimate solution. And that is really, really bad and unfair to many involved (family, partner, and eventually the kid themselves) > Family doesn't collapse half as easily You'd be surprised. Mine did, and in the region I'm from, did many, too. In fact, the modern invention of a nuclear family is more brittle than some want to accept. With truly a lot of sympathy, I encourage you too, to try to think outside your bubble. I am happy for each one of those around me who manage a life with their babies and new family. But this "you'll never know until" mentality is very toxic and the ones repeating it don't realize it's true vice versa. - - - All the other issues you mention (jobs, friends come and go) are also generalization, and certainly didn't apply to me or many others, thus, not a proof of anything.
- michelsedgh 2y ago
  I think you don’t know anything in life until you try it. Goes both ways for having children and not having children. You won’t know until you’re old and then see if you are happy or not.
- candiodari 2y ago
  > You'd be surprised. Mine did, and in the region I'm from, did many, too. In fact, the modern invention of a nuclear family is more brittle than some want to accept. I get it. Some families fail. People get really angry about that, and I understand why. That doesn't mean it will never succeed (and frankly, a failed family is imho, in quite a few ways, still better than no family at all). I'm pretty damn sure the "mass families", or however you want to call it, so big that kids only really had other kids as parents, that came before were a LOT worse than a nuclear family. My main point is that there's a strong motivation to keep a family going. And that is a huge part of what keeps me stable. I think it's a necessary part of keeping me stable.