5 ms·

I grew up in the US and was in high school 10 years ago. Economics was required for me, and if anything, my teachers skewed right-wing. In fact, being "left-win

I grew up in the US and was in high school 10 years ago. Economics was required for me, and if anything, my teachers skewed right-wing. In fact, being "left-wing" largely meant being pro gay/womens/colored rights, but still neo-liberal. I still get that sense from most Dems I meet, so I don't really get this Soviet mindgame speak. Also, in what era were all teachers and professors 50/50 left/right wing?

FredPret 2y ago
I’ve never met a conservative teacher. Here’s some (probably low quality) data that confirms that idea: https://verdantlabs.com/politics_of_professions/ https://verdantlabs.com/politics_of_professions/ Here’s an article about how college professors used to be much more Republican: https://nationalaffairs.com/publications/detail/the-disappearing-conservative-professor https://nationalaffairs.com/publications/detail/the-disappea... Here’s one about Russian infiltration of a Western uni: https://www.propublica.org/article/why-russian-spies-really-like-american-universities https://www.propublica.org/article/why-russian-spies-really-... Admittedly that last one does not describe an infiltration on the scale I’m talking about. But my thing happened around the 1920’s - 1930’s. Just look at all the Confucian Institutes on campuses and academics getting into trouble for illegal ties to China. If you’re an ideological enemy of the West and seek to undermine it in the long term, this slow infiltration of the teaching institutions is exactly what you would do.
- toastercat 2y ago
  > I’ve never met a conservative teacher. This probably depends where you went to school. I'm from South Florida where there is a large Cuban population. > Here’s an article about how college professors used to be much more Republican: https://nationalaffairs.com/publications/detail/the-disappea https://nationalaffairs.com/publications/detail/the-disappea... Thanks for the article. It's a bit of a goofy partisan piece though, and provides some hand-wavy conjecture like, "It is unclear why elite research institutions have been untouched by these changes, though it is possible that these institutions use less-politicized criteria when selecting faculty, and thus make it easier for talented conservative scholars to find jobs." The article never explains what criteria. It also makes funny statements like "if one wants to be exposed to a broad spectrum of political ideas, it is still far better to attend Notre Dame or Baylor than Berkeley or Cornell" Because... more faculty are Republican? Does the American two-party system accurately represent the wide spectrum of political thought? You seem to be implying that the rise in liberal professors/teachers is a result of covert infiltration of American universities that is brainwashing students and faculty. I find it more likely that less conservatives want to be teachers/professors than liberals do in the first place.
  - FredPret 2y ago
    Yes, it’s partisan, but I don’t think there’s a news site that isn’t partisan and, as you say, goofy. > “I find it more likely that less conservatives want to be teachers/professors than liberals do in the first place.” This is true. But consider that a little bit of subversion applied over a decade or two can make things uncomfortable for one side, tipping the scales that way. Soon the whole field becomes unwelcoming to outsiders and a political spiral begins. A century later, you’re 1000x more likely to find Das Kapital being read at university than Atlas Shrugged. I just think we need more granola-eating chemical engineers and more libertarian English professors. Running society is about negotiating tradeoffs. How can we make intelligent tradeoffs when only one perspective is present?
    - toastercat 2y ago
      > Yes, it’s partisan, but I don’t think there’s a news site that isn’t partisan and, as you say, goofy. I guess what I was trying to say was it's not a very good piece and doesn't offer a balanced perspective. > This is true. But consider that a little bit of subversion applied over a decade or two can make things uncomfortable for one side, tipping the scales that way. I considered that, but I think this has less to do with universities politicizing their hiring process, and more to do with shifting societal norms and external factors; ex., Universities are more secular and multicultural than they were 50 years ago, public schools pay less. > A century later, you’re 1000x more likely to find Das Kapital being read at university than Atlas Shrugged. I think this is a bad example and false equivocation -- Das Kapital is a scientific text and analysis of economic models that was a work-in-progress for the entirety of Marx's life. Atlas Shrugged is a fiction novel written by a person who literally named her own philosophy and tried to build rules around it. Also, Atlas Shrugged is commonly assigned reading in high school in the US. > I just think we need more granola-eating chemical engineers and more libertarian English professors. Running society is about negotiating tradeoffs. How can we make intelligent tradeoffs when only one perspective is present? I guess what I'm saying is: more perspectives are present. Just because all professors in a university vote Democrat doesn't mean they all hold carbon-copy political views. There's room for nuance outside of a meaningless metric like "50% of teachers should be Republican".

FredPret 2y ago

I’ve never met a conservative teacher. Here’s some (probably low quality) data that confirms that idea: https://verdantlabs.com/politics_of_professions/ https://verdantlabs.com/politics_of_professions/ Here’s an article about how college professors used to be much more Republican: https://nationalaffairs.com/publications/detail/the-disappearing-conservative-professor https://nationalaffairs.com/publications/detail/the-disappea... Here’s one about Russian infiltration of a Western uni: https://www.propublica.org/article/why-russian-spies-really-like-american-universities https://www.propublica.org/article/why-russian-spies-really-... Admittedly that last one does not describe an infiltration on the scale I’m talking about. But my thing happened around the 1920’s - 1930’s. Just look at all the Confucian Institutes on campuses and academics getting into trouble for illegal ties to China. If you’re an ideological enemy of the West and seek to undermine it in the long term, this slow infiltration of the teaching institutions is exactly what you would do.

toastercat 2y ago
> I’ve never met a conservative teacher. This probably depends where you went to school. I'm from South Florida where there is a large Cuban population. > Here’s an article about how college professors used to be much more Republican: https://nationalaffairs.com/publications/detail/the-disappea https://nationalaffairs.com/publications/detail/the-disappea... Thanks for the article. It's a bit of a goofy partisan piece though, and provides some hand-wavy conjecture like, "It is unclear why elite research institutions have been untouched by these changes, though it is possible that these institutions use less-politicized criteria when selecting faculty, and thus make it easier for talented conservative scholars to find jobs." The article never explains what criteria. It also makes funny statements like "if one wants to be exposed to a broad spectrum of political ideas, it is still far better to attend Notre Dame or Baylor than Berkeley or Cornell" Because... more faculty are Republican? Does the American two-party system accurately represent the wide spectrum of political thought? You seem to be implying that the rise in liberal professors/teachers is a result of covert infiltration of American universities that is brainwashing students and faculty. I find it more likely that less conservatives want to be teachers/professors than liberals do in the first place.
- FredPret 2y ago
  Yes, it’s partisan, but I don’t think there’s a news site that isn’t partisan and, as you say, goofy. > “I find it more likely that less conservatives want to be teachers/professors than liberals do in the first place.” This is true. But consider that a little bit of subversion applied over a decade or two can make things uncomfortable for one side, tipping the scales that way. Soon the whole field becomes unwelcoming to outsiders and a political spiral begins. A century later, you’re 1000x more likely to find Das Kapital being read at university than Atlas Shrugged. I just think we need more granola-eating chemical engineers and more libertarian English professors. Running society is about negotiating tradeoffs. How can we make intelligent tradeoffs when only one perspective is present?
  - toastercat 2y ago
    > Yes, it’s partisan, but I don’t think there’s a news site that isn’t partisan and, as you say, goofy. I guess what I was trying to say was it's not a very good piece and doesn't offer a balanced perspective. > This is true. But consider that a little bit of subversion applied over a decade or two can make things uncomfortable for one side, tipping the scales that way. I considered that, but I think this has less to do with universities politicizing their hiring process, and more to do with shifting societal norms and external factors; ex., Universities are more secular and multicultural than they were 50 years ago, public schools pay less. > A century later, you’re 1000x more likely to find Das Kapital being read at university than Atlas Shrugged. I think this is a bad example and false equivocation -- Das Kapital is a scientific text and analysis of economic models that was a work-in-progress for the entirety of Marx's life. Atlas Shrugged is a fiction novel written by a person who literally named her own philosophy and tried to build rules around it. Also, Atlas Shrugged is commonly assigned reading in high school in the US. > I just think we need more granola-eating chemical engineers and more libertarian English professors. Running society is about negotiating tradeoffs. How can we make intelligent tradeoffs when only one perspective is present? I guess what I'm saying is: more perspectives are present. Just because all professors in a university vote Democrat doesn't mean they all hold carbon-copy political views. There's room for nuance outside of a meaningless metric like "50% of teachers should be Republican".