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That’s very absolutist. There’s a place for rental accommodation. I moved to Australia as a backpacker in 2003 and found a cheap rental. What was I supposed to

That’s very absolutist. There’s a place for rental accommodation. I moved to Australia as a backpacker in 2003 and found a cheap rental. What was I supposed to do, buy a house?

andrewstuart 3y ago
The absolutist position is to think I am advocating for an end to renting, and thus dismiss my message. Only a fool or someone choosing to would think I am advocating for an end to renting. But sure if you want to be right, you made your point. My point remains - the renter/landlord system is toxic for healthy society, for families, for young people, for old people, for everyone who is not a landlord - if you have personal integrity then you should not be a landlord.
- jen729w 3y ago
  > if you have personal integrity then you should not be a landlord Alright. So who rents 2003-me that flat in Elwood? By the way, I still rent. I mostly enjoy it. I like the freedom to move.
  - 000ooo000 3y ago
    Realise that you are in the minority. The majority eventually desire security and stability in their housing for obvious reasons. A system that incentivises a minority with the means to increasingly squeeze potential from those without is not sustainable long term. One doesn't need to look hard now to find sentiment in younger generations that amounts to "what's the point? I'll never afford a home". If you think that's healthy for a society, or justified, because a small portion of the population like the freedom of renting, not sure what to tell you.
    - etrautmann 3y ago
      How are you so sure what people want? I think many people want both stability and freedom to move.
    - al_borland 3y ago
      And where are people supposed to live before they are ready to buy a house of their own? One of the issues young people seem to have is that they have been conditioned to want immediate gratification. They are 23 and want a house on par with their parent’s home. Their parents didn’t start out with that place and worked up to it over decades. My parents didn’t even have a shower in their first apartment. They had to take baths and use a mug to scoop up water to wash their hair. I had it better than them when I started out and got my first place; I actually had a shower. People in general would be a lot happier if they dialed back their expectations.
- apsurd 3y ago
  agree with you, how would it work otherwise? if rent still works, who are we paying rent to that's not paying into all the negative stuff you mentioned? how do i have shelter in your system?
  - andrewstuart 3y ago
    The goal of society should be 90% owner occupied. Of course not everyone should own a house, but 90% owner occupied/10% rented it the right mix. Housing in most western economies today is a ponzi scheme - a deeply immoral ponzi scheme, perpetrated by politicians with large housing portfolios who stand to benefit from the immoral corruption of the ponzi. The first thing to do is point the finger at the landlords who are buying up houses and who think of themselves as good people and let them know they are the toxic perpetrators of the ruin of the fabric of our society. Every houses a landlord owns in a house that a young family will never own. When you own houses you own families like serfs.
    - vel0city 3y ago
      > The goal of society should be 90% owner occupied. Why 90%? Why not 85%? Why not 95%? Why not 70%? Why not 99.21237%? Where'd 90% come from? What if 11% of the households genuinely want to rent? Have rental prices skyrocket forcing people into the complications of buying, holding, maintaining, and selling real estate?
      - andrewstuart 3y ago
        I could not ask their sons to fight and die for the properties of the wealthy. Lee Kuan-Yew, the former Prime Minister of Singapore said: “Soon after separation, I resolved to enable every household to own its own home. If we were going to get the people to take National Service seriously, I could not ask their sons to fight and die for the properties of the wealthy. We worked out a personal savings scheme that allowed them to own an apartment painlessly through installments over 20 years. We sold the apartments to them at below cost to enhance their assets. Today, 95 per cent of Singaporean households are homeowners. It has immeasurably increased their wealth and our social stability. Without home ownership, we would have become like Tokyo, Seoul or Hong Kong, where the voters in the cities are disaffected because they pay a large proportion of their salaries in rents.” . . . 95%
- vel0city 3y ago
  > Every house owned by a landlord is another house not owned by an owner occupier. > the renter/landlord system is toxic for healthy society > Only a fool or someone choosing to would think I am advocating for an end to renting. I mean, you use terms like "every" and say the whole concept is toxic for society. Its not some misreading of your statements to see you're stating for an end to renting when "the renter/landlord system is toxic". If that relationship is toxic for everyone who is not a landlord, isn't eliminating the whole thing the cure for this toxicness?

That’s very absolutist. There’s a place for rental accommodation. I moved to Australia as a backpacker in 2003 and found a cheap rental. What was I supposed to do, buy a house?

andrewstuart 3y ago

The absolutist position is to think I am advocating for an end to renting, and thus dismiss my message. Only a fool or someone choosing to would think I am advocating for an end to renting. But sure if you want to be right, you made your point. My point remains - the renter/landlord system is toxic for healthy society, for families, for young people, for old people, for everyone who is not a landlord - if you have personal integrity then you should not be a landlord.

jen729w 3y ago
> if you have personal integrity then you should not be a landlord Alright. So who rents 2003-me that flat in Elwood? By the way, I still rent. I mostly enjoy it. I like the freedom to move.
- 000ooo000 3y ago
  Realise that you are in the minority. The majority eventually desire security and stability in their housing for obvious reasons. A system that incentivises a minority with the means to increasingly squeeze potential from those without is not sustainable long term. One doesn't need to look hard now to find sentiment in younger generations that amounts to "what's the point? I'll never afford a home". If you think that's healthy for a society, or justified, because a small portion of the population like the freedom of renting, not sure what to tell you.
  - etrautmann 3y ago
    How are you so sure what people want? I think many people want both stability and freedom to move.
  - al_borland 3y ago
    And where are people supposed to live before they are ready to buy a house of their own? One of the issues young people seem to have is that they have been conditioned to want immediate gratification. They are 23 and want a house on par with their parent’s home. Their parents didn’t start out with that place and worked up to it over decades. My parents didn’t even have a shower in their first apartment. They had to take baths and use a mug to scoop up water to wash their hair. I had it better than them when I started out and got my first place; I actually had a shower. People in general would be a lot happier if they dialed back their expectations.
apsurd 3y ago
agree with you, how would it work otherwise? if rent still works, who are we paying rent to that's not paying into all the negative stuff you mentioned? how do i have shelter in your system?
- andrewstuart 3y ago
  The goal of society should be 90% owner occupied. Of course not everyone should own a house, but 90% owner occupied/10% rented it the right mix. Housing in most western economies today is a ponzi scheme - a deeply immoral ponzi scheme, perpetrated by politicians with large housing portfolios who stand to benefit from the immoral corruption of the ponzi. The first thing to do is point the finger at the landlords who are buying up houses and who think of themselves as good people and let them know they are the toxic perpetrators of the ruin of the fabric of our society. Every houses a landlord owns in a house that a young family will never own. When you own houses you own families like serfs.
  - vel0city 3y ago
    > The goal of society should be 90% owner occupied. Why 90%? Why not 85%? Why not 95%? Why not 70%? Why not 99.21237%? Where'd 90% come from? What if 11% of the households genuinely want to rent? Have rental prices skyrocket forcing people into the complications of buying, holding, maintaining, and selling real estate?
    - andrewstuart 3y ago
      I could not ask their sons to fight and die for the properties of the wealthy. Lee Kuan-Yew, the former Prime Minister of Singapore said: “Soon after separation, I resolved to enable every household to own its own home. If we were going to get the people to take National Service seriously, I could not ask their sons to fight and die for the properties of the wealthy. We worked out a personal savings scheme that allowed them to own an apartment painlessly through installments over 20 years. We sold the apartments to them at below cost to enhance their assets. Today, 95 per cent of Singaporean households are homeowners. It has immeasurably increased their wealth and our social stability. Without home ownership, we would have become like Tokyo, Seoul or Hong Kong, where the voters in the cities are disaffected because they pay a large proportion of their salaries in rents.” . . . 95%
vel0city 3y ago
> Every house owned by a landlord is another house not owned by an owner occupier. > the renter/landlord system is toxic for healthy society > Only a fool or someone choosing to would think I am advocating for an end to renting. I mean, you use terms like "every" and say the whole concept is toxic for society. Its not some misreading of your statements to see you're stating for an end to renting when "the renter/landlord system is toxic". If that relationship is toxic for everyone who is not a landlord, isn't eliminating the whole thing the cure for this toxicness?