4 ms·

Is there an example of Microsoft ever actually "extinguishing" something? The extinguish bit is more about making the competing services non-viable. Microsoft'

by nerdix 2y ago

Is there an example of Microsoft ever actually "extinguishing" something? The extinguish bit is more about making the competing services non-viable. Microsoft's whole strategy was built around making it so a user on its platform either couldn't or wouldn't want to use a particular technology without their proprietary extensions. That perfectly describes iMessage if we're to believe all the commentary on social media about how iPhone users get the "ick" from seeing a green bubble. In fact, I'd argue that iMessage has been one of the most successful implementations of EEE ever. Maybe only behind ActiveX and Microsoft's slow adoption of web standards in the late 90s - mid 00s (but MS never actually replaced HTML or JavaScript with its proprietary stuff).

Jtsummers 2y ago
> In fact, I'd argue that iMessage has been one of the most successful implementations of EEE ever. Maybe only behind ActiveX and Microsoft's slow adoption of web standards in the late 90s - mid 00s (but MS never actually replaced HTML or JavaScript with its proprietary stuff). Is it? Globally, iMessage is far from the most popular messaging application. If it's an attempt at EEE it's not a great one. IE was far more successful in degree and longevity of impact. And no, they didn't. They just implemented CSS and other things exactly counter to the spec in a number of spots, along with other incompatibilities in order to make developers have to choose: 80% to 90% of the market, or conform to standards? > That perfectly describes iMessage if we're to believe all the commentary on social media about how iPhone users get the "ick" from seeing a green bubble. The only people who care about that their own messages on their own phones show up as green bubbles are children. The rest of the world doesn't give a shit. They see green bubbles because they use WhatsApp.
- nerdix 2y ago
  > Is it? Globally, iMessage is far from the most popular messaging application. If it's an attempt at EEE it's not a great one. IE was far more successful in degree and longevity of impact. I basically already said it was second to IE. What else did MS do that was more successful than iMessage? There were definitely many attempts by Microsoft that were not as successful like Visual J++. They also had a similar strategy to iMessage with MSN Messenger embracing and extending AIM and they had a lot of success with that but most of that success came right before desktop messaging was superseded by mobile messaging. > The only people who care about that their own messages on their own phones show up as green bubbles are children. The rest of the world doesn't give a shit. They see green bubbles because they use WhatsApp. Thats just just not true in America. There are literally adult Android users that who post about how using Android is a barrier to their dating life because other adult iPhone users (which is the majority for certain age groups) will just simply refuse to date someone who doesn't use an iPhone. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9FbOf3uewU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9FbOf3uewU https://www.cnet.com/culture/iphone-or-android-your-phone-choice-could-be-impacting-your-love-life/ https://www.cnet.com/culture/iphone-or-android-your-phone-ch... And countless reddit threads and twitter posts: https://www.reddit.com/r/dating/comments/qsle1x/is_having_an_android_phone_a_dating_dealbreaker/ https://www.reddit.com/r/dating/comments/qsle1x/is_having_an... https://www.reddit.com/r/dating_advice/comments/17n91aj/is_an_iphone_seriously_a_dealbreaker_like_are/ https://www.reddit.com/r/dating_advice/comments/17n91aj/is_a... https://twitter.com/ldollaz_/status/1783138659480289561 https://twitter.com/ldollaz_/status/1783138659480289561 https://twitter.com/tweetsmoe/status/1783274758856925517 https://twitter.com/tweetsmoe/status/1783274758856925517 Some people even think the issue is Android: https://twitter.com/EbonyJHilton_MD/status/1348030395015700480 https://twitter.com/EbonyJHilton_MD/status/13480303950157004... I've also heard personal anecdotes from single men that I know who use Android (it definitely goes other way too but I know more single men personally than women).
  - tekknik 2y ago
    All this over green bubbles. Life has gotten so good in the US that all that’s left to focus on is green bubbles. We’ve solved homelessness, wealth gaps, housing crisis, so now it’s time to take down Apple because those green bubbles need to die. I wish this current generation would learn what’s actually important to fight for. Green bubbles are not on the list.
    - talldayo 2y ago
      The problem is that Apple, the world's largest tech company, is reluctant to create or join messaging standards. I'm not sure if you're very familiar with the prevalence of texting (or Apple) in the 21st century but it stands to reason that this is a rather important thing to regulate. It certainly was worth regulating when Ma Bell tried monopolizing communication protocols 50 years ago. So tell us; what is worth fighting over? I'd be tickled pink to hear what consumer harms you'd prioritize over something as supposedly-diminutive as Apple's actions.
      - tekknik 2y ago
        No the problem is not Apple refusing to join messaging standards. The problem is you thinking this is a problem worth fighting when there are many many many other more serious problems to address first. Apples actions are not keeping people from living the one life they have. They are keeping people from having blue bubbles. Blue bubbles are not a necessity in life. Food, jobs, money, housing, these are all required. Take that same energy and focus it on something that will let more people live instead of a nonissue. You are defocusing actual issues to solve a petty fight and force control. Stop. If you continue to be blind, and focus nonissues, you are the problem.
        talldayo 2y ago
        > You are defocusing actual issues to solve a petty fight and force control. Stop. > If you continue to be blind, and focus nonissues, you are the problem. You are the one that has refused to furnish anything more important. Also, somewhat obviously, food, jobs, money and housing are not distributed arbitrarily. Blue bubbles are. It sounds like you're really upset over this whole thing, which is concerning once you consider how likely Apple is to lose their case here. Are you going to still be okay in the event that Apple is legislated for this behavior? Are you going to protest in the street against the DOJ for ignoring the real problems, like PB&J distribution at the local middle school?

by nerdix 2y ago

Jtsummers 2y ago

> In fact, I'd argue that iMessage has been one of the most successful implementations of EEE ever. Maybe only behind ActiveX and Microsoft's slow adoption of web standards in the late 90s - mid 00s (but MS never actually replaced HTML or JavaScript with its proprietary stuff). Is it? Globally, iMessage is far from the most popular messaging application. If it's an attempt at EEE it's not a great one. IE was far more successful in degree and longevity of impact. And no, they didn't. They just implemented CSS and other things exactly counter to the spec in a number of spots, along with other incompatibilities in order to make developers have to choose: 80% to 90% of the market, or conform to standards? > That perfectly describes iMessage if we're to believe all the commentary on social media about how iPhone users get the "ick" from seeing a green bubble. The only people who care about that their own messages on their own phones show up as green bubbles are children. The rest of the world doesn't give a shit. They see green bubbles because they use WhatsApp.

nerdix 2y ago
> Is it? Globally, iMessage is far from the most popular messaging application. If it's an attempt at EEE it's not a great one. IE was far more successful in degree and longevity of impact. I basically already said it was second to IE. What else did MS do that was more successful than iMessage? There were definitely many attempts by Microsoft that were not as successful like Visual J++. They also had a similar strategy to iMessage with MSN Messenger embracing and extending AIM and they had a lot of success with that but most of that success came right before desktop messaging was superseded by mobile messaging. > The only people who care about that their own messages on their own phones show up as green bubbles are children. The rest of the world doesn't give a shit. They see green bubbles because they use WhatsApp. Thats just just not true in America. There are literally adult Android users that who post about how using Android is a barrier to their dating life because other adult iPhone users (which is the majority for certain age groups) will just simply refuse to date someone who doesn't use an iPhone. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9FbOf3uewU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9FbOf3uewU https://www.cnet.com/culture/iphone-or-android-your-phone-choice-could-be-impacting-your-love-life/ https://www.cnet.com/culture/iphone-or-android-your-phone-ch... And countless reddit threads and twitter posts: https://www.reddit.com/r/dating/comments/qsle1x/is_having_an_android_phone_a_dating_dealbreaker/ https://www.reddit.com/r/dating/comments/qsle1x/is_having_an... https://www.reddit.com/r/dating_advice/comments/17n91aj/is_an_iphone_seriously_a_dealbreaker_like_are/ https://www.reddit.com/r/dating_advice/comments/17n91aj/is_a... https://twitter.com/ldollaz_/status/1783138659480289561 https://twitter.com/ldollaz_/status/1783138659480289561 https://twitter.com/tweetsmoe/status/1783274758856925517 https://twitter.com/tweetsmoe/status/1783274758856925517 Some people even think the issue is Android: https://twitter.com/EbonyJHilton_MD/status/1348030395015700480 https://twitter.com/EbonyJHilton_MD/status/13480303950157004... I've also heard personal anecdotes from single men that I know who use Android (it definitely goes other way too but I know more single men personally than women).
- tekknik 2y ago
  All this over green bubbles. Life has gotten so good in the US that all that’s left to focus on is green bubbles. We’ve solved homelessness, wealth gaps, housing crisis, so now it’s time to take down Apple because those green bubbles need to die. I wish this current generation would learn what’s actually important to fight for. Green bubbles are not on the list.
  - talldayo 2y ago
    The problem is that Apple, the world's largest tech company, is reluctant to create or join messaging standards. I'm not sure if you're very familiar with the prevalence of texting (or Apple) in the 21st century but it stands to reason that this is a rather important thing to regulate. It certainly was worth regulating when Ma Bell tried monopolizing communication protocols 50 years ago. So tell us; what is worth fighting over? I'd be tickled pink to hear what consumer harms you'd prioritize over something as supposedly-diminutive as Apple's actions.
    - tekknik 2y ago
      No the problem is not Apple refusing to join messaging standards. The problem is you thinking this is a problem worth fighting when there are many many many other more serious problems to address first. Apples actions are not keeping people from living the one life they have. They are keeping people from having blue bubbles. Blue bubbles are not a necessity in life. Food, jobs, money, housing, these are all required. Take that same energy and focus it on something that will let more people live instead of a nonissue. You are defocusing actual issues to solve a petty fight and force control. Stop. If you continue to be blind, and focus nonissues, you are the problem.
      - talldayo 2y ago
        > You are defocusing actual issues to solve a petty fight and force control. Stop. > If you continue to be blind, and focus nonissues, you are the problem. You are the one that has refused to furnish anything more important. Also, somewhat obviously, food, jobs, money and housing are not distributed arbitrarily. Blue bubbles are. It sounds like you're really upset over this whole thing, which is concerning once you consider how likely Apple is to lose their case here. Are you going to still be okay in the event that Apple is legislated for this behavior? Are you going to protest in the street against the DOJ for ignoring the real problems, like PB&J distribution at the local middle school?