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Interesting stuff, but I think there's one more string he could have pulled. What was the MS software that ended up in the Saturn? I would bet emulator devs hav

Interesting stuff, but I think there's one more string he could have pulled. What was the MS software that ended up in the Saturn? I would bet emulator devs have done a lot of reverse engineering here already. Even if it doesn't lead to an obvious answer, there's bound to be more clues.

IntelMiner 2y ago
Microsoft shipped a Windows CE based dev kit for the Sega Saturn From developer and reverse engineering accounts it was significantly heavier than just running the games bare metal (which isn't terribly surprising)
- fallingsquirrel 2y ago
  Yes, but doesn't that run on a different layer than the CD drive firmware? I'm specifically referring to this quote: > Microsoft may have reached some level of completion on that project and sold it to Sega for the Saturn's complicated storage controller, but it's also possible that the connection between the Saturn and MAW is mistaken and the software Microsoft delivered to Sega was a simple, from-scratch effort. win32/win16 code has a very distinctive style, so I think if an emulator author dumped the firmware and even just looked at it with `strings` it would be pretty obvious whether or not the firmware is some kind of slimmed down version of proto-Windows. At least that's the next place I would look for answers.
  - jcrawfordor 2y ago
    A reader has done exactly that and reports pretty confidently that the CD-ROM subsystem firmware is not Windows, and appears to be mostly hand-written assembly and probably by Hitachi. Unsurprising considering their prominent role in the CD-ROM industry. It is true that the later Sega Dreamcast could run Windows CE, although the Saturn, as far as I can tell, never could. Windows CE had barely been started when the Saturn came out, so it doesn't seem realistic that there had been a plan in the Saturn era to put CE on it. If I had to speculate (and I do) I think that perhaps the Sega-Microsoft partnership for the Saturn didn't work out, perhaps due to the failure of WinPad or Pegasus, but did start the relationship that lead to CE support on the Dreamcast.

IntelMiner 2y ago

Microsoft shipped a Windows CE based dev kit for the Sega Saturn From developer and reverse engineering accounts it was significantly heavier than just running the games bare metal (which isn't terribly surprising)

fallingsquirrel 2y ago
Yes, but doesn't that run on a different layer than the CD drive firmware? I'm specifically referring to this quote: > Microsoft may have reached some level of completion on that project and sold it to Sega for the Saturn's complicated storage controller, but it's also possible that the connection between the Saturn and MAW is mistaken and the software Microsoft delivered to Sega was a simple, from-scratch effort. win32/win16 code has a very distinctive style, so I think if an emulator author dumped the firmware and even just looked at it with `strings` it would be pretty obvious whether or not the firmware is some kind of slimmed down version of proto-Windows. At least that's the next place I would look for answers.
- jcrawfordor 2y ago
  A reader has done exactly that and reports pretty confidently that the CD-ROM subsystem firmware is not Windows, and appears to be mostly hand-written assembly and probably by Hitachi. Unsurprising considering their prominent role in the CD-ROM industry. It is true that the later Sega Dreamcast could run Windows CE, although the Saturn, as far as I can tell, never could. Windows CE had barely been started when the Saturn came out, so it doesn't seem realistic that there had been a plan in the Saturn era to put CE on it. If I had to speculate (and I do) I think that perhaps the Sega-Microsoft partnership for the Saturn didn't work out, perhaps due to the failure of WinPad or Pegasus, but did start the relationship that lead to CE support on the Dreamcast.