5 ms·

I don't see that removing or crippling an option a lot of users rely on improves the market, or competition. Doesn't benefit the public? Are happy iPhone users

by simonh 2y ago

I don't see that removing or crippling an option a lot of users rely on improves the market, or competition. Doesn't benefit the public? Are happy iPhone users that rely on iMessage every day including it's SMS integration not benefited, or not the public?

talldayo 2y ago
> I don't see that removing or crippling an option a lot of users rely on improves the market, or competition. It certainly doesn't need to be removed, just expanded. Apple can't have their cake and eat it too, you either replace SMS and the multiplatform commitments that come with it or you don't. Pretending to hold down a halfway-house to keep selling iPhones is not only a bundling tactic, but combined with Apple's negligence towards alternatives it's genuinely anticompetitive. > Are happy iPhone users that rely on iMessage every day including it's SMS integration not benefited, or not the public? ...no, those are happy iPhone users. The public inherently means people that are not paying customers of Apple; regular citizens with no outstanding obligations to any corporation. I don't understand how you could possibly interpret "the public" to mean "satisfied iPhone customers" in this situation.
- Jtsummers 2y ago
  > Apple can't have their cake and eat it too, you either replace SMS and the multiplatform commitments that come with it or you don't. You keep suggesting that Apple replaced SMS. They didn't. So per this new statement, they have no multi-platform commitments because they haven't done anything to warrant it.
  - nerdix 2y ago
    Is there an example of Microsoft ever actually "extinguishing" something? The extinguish bit is more about making the competing services non-viable. Microsoft's whole strategy was built around making it so a user on its platform either couldn't or wouldn't want to use a particular technology without their proprietary extensions. That perfectly describes iMessage if we're to believe all the commentary on social media about how iPhone users get the "ick" from seeing a green bubble. In fact, I'd argue that iMessage has been one of the most successful implementations of EEE ever. Maybe only behind ActiveX and Microsoft's slow adoption of web standards in the late 90s - mid 00s (but MS never actually replaced HTML or JavaScript with its proprietary stuff).
    - Jtsummers 2y ago
      > In fact, I'd argue that iMessage has been one of the most successful implementations of EEE ever. Maybe only behind ActiveX and Microsoft's slow adoption of web standards in the late 90s - mid 00s (but MS never actually replaced HTML or JavaScript with its proprietary stuff). Is it? Globally, iMessage is far from the most popular messaging application. If it's an attempt at EEE it's not a great one. IE was far more successful in degree and longevity of impact. And no, they didn't. They just implemented CSS and other things exactly counter to the spec in a number of spots, along with other incompatibilities in order to make developers have to choose: 80% to 90% of the market, or conform to standards? > That perfectly describes iMessage if we're to believe all the commentary on social media about how iPhone users get the "ick" from seeing a green bubble. The only people who care about that their own messages on their own phones show up as green bubbles are children. The rest of the world doesn't give a shit. They see green bubbles because they use WhatsApp.
      - nerdix 2y ago
        > Is it? Globally, iMessage is far from the most popular messaging application. If it's an attempt at EEE it's not a great one. IE was far more successful in degree and longevity of impact. I basically already said it was second to IE. What else did MS do that was more successful than iMessage? There were definitely many attempts by Microsoft that were not as successful like Visual J++. They also had a similar strategy to iMessage with MSN Messenger embracing and extending AIM and they had a lot of success with that but most of that success came right before desktop messaging was superseded by mobile messaging. > The only people who care about that their own messages on their own phones show up as green bubbles are children. The rest of the world doesn't give a shit. They see green bubbles because they use WhatsApp. Thats just just not true in America. There are literally adult Android users that who post about how using Android is a barrier to their dating life because other adult iPhone users (which is the majority for certain age groups) will just simply refuse to date someone who doesn't use an iPhone. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9FbOf3uewU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9FbOf3uewU https://www.cnet.com/culture/iphone-or-android-your-phone-choice-could-be-impacting-your-love-life/ https://www.cnet.com/culture/iphone-or-android-your-phone-ch... And countless reddit threads and twitter posts: https://www.reddit.com/r/dating/comments/qsle1x/is_having_an_android_phone_a_dating_dealbreaker/ https://www.reddit.com/r/dating/comments/qsle1x/is_having_an... https://www.reddit.com/r/dating_advice/comments/17n91aj/is_an_iphone_seriously_a_dealbreaker_like_are/ https://www.reddit.com/r/dating_advice/comments/17n91aj/is_a... https://twitter.com/ldollaz_/status/1783138659480289561 https://twitter.com/ldollaz_/status/1783138659480289561 https://twitter.com/tweetsmoe/status/1783274758856925517 https://twitter.com/tweetsmoe/status/1783274758856925517 Some people even think the issue is Android: https://twitter.com/EbonyJHilton_MD/status/1348030395015700480 https://twitter.com/EbonyJHilton_MD/status/13480303950157004... I've also heard personal anecdotes from single men that I know who use Android (it definitely goes other way too but I know more single men personally than women).

by simonh 2y ago

talldayo 2y ago

> I don't see that removing or crippling an option a lot of users rely on improves the market, or competition. It certainly doesn't need to be removed, just expanded. Apple can't have their cake and eat it too, you either replace SMS and the multiplatform commitments that come with it or you don't. Pretending to hold down a halfway-house to keep selling iPhones is not only a bundling tactic, but combined with Apple's negligence towards alternatives it's genuinely anticompetitive. > Are happy iPhone users that rely on iMessage every day including it's SMS integration not benefited, or not the public? ...no, those are happy iPhone users. The public inherently means people that are not paying customers of Apple; regular citizens with no outstanding obligations to any corporation. I don't understand how you could possibly interpret "the public" to mean "satisfied iPhone customers" in this situation.

Jtsummers 2y ago
> Apple can't have their cake and eat it too, you either replace SMS and the multiplatform commitments that come with it or you don't. You keep suggesting that Apple replaced SMS. They didn't. So per this new statement, they have no multi-platform commitments because they haven't done anything to warrant it.
- nerdix 2y ago
  Is there an example of Microsoft ever actually "extinguishing" something? The extinguish bit is more about making the competing services non-viable. Microsoft's whole strategy was built around making it so a user on its platform either couldn't or wouldn't want to use a particular technology without their proprietary extensions. That perfectly describes iMessage if we're to believe all the commentary on social media about how iPhone users get the "ick" from seeing a green bubble. In fact, I'd argue that iMessage has been one of the most successful implementations of EEE ever. Maybe only behind ActiveX and Microsoft's slow adoption of web standards in the late 90s - mid 00s (but MS never actually replaced HTML or JavaScript with its proprietary stuff).
  - Jtsummers 2y ago
    > In fact, I'd argue that iMessage has been one of the most successful implementations of EEE ever. Maybe only behind ActiveX and Microsoft's slow adoption of web standards in the late 90s - mid 00s (but MS never actually replaced HTML or JavaScript with its proprietary stuff). Is it? Globally, iMessage is far from the most popular messaging application. If it's an attempt at EEE it's not a great one. IE was far more successful in degree and longevity of impact. And no, they didn't. They just implemented CSS and other things exactly counter to the spec in a number of spots, along with other incompatibilities in order to make developers have to choose: 80% to 90% of the market, or conform to standards? > That perfectly describes iMessage if we're to believe all the commentary on social media about how iPhone users get the "ick" from seeing a green bubble. The only people who care about that their own messages on their own phones show up as green bubbles are children. The rest of the world doesn't give a shit. They see green bubbles because they use WhatsApp.
    - nerdix 2y ago
      > Is it? Globally, iMessage is far from the most popular messaging application. If it's an attempt at EEE it's not a great one. IE was far more successful in degree and longevity of impact. I basically already said it was second to IE. What else did MS do that was more successful than iMessage? There were definitely many attempts by Microsoft that were not as successful like Visual J++. They also had a similar strategy to iMessage with MSN Messenger embracing and extending AIM and they had a lot of success with that but most of that success came right before desktop messaging was superseded by mobile messaging. > The only people who care about that their own messages on their own phones show up as green bubbles are children. The rest of the world doesn't give a shit. They see green bubbles because they use WhatsApp. Thats just just not true in America. There are literally adult Android users that who post about how using Android is a barrier to their dating life because other adult iPhone users (which is the majority for certain age groups) will just simply refuse to date someone who doesn't use an iPhone. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9FbOf3uewU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9FbOf3uewU https://www.cnet.com/culture/iphone-or-android-your-phone-choice-could-be-impacting-your-love-life/ https://www.cnet.com/culture/iphone-or-android-your-phone-ch... And countless reddit threads and twitter posts: https://www.reddit.com/r/dating/comments/qsle1x/is_having_an_android_phone_a_dating_dealbreaker/ https://www.reddit.com/r/dating/comments/qsle1x/is_having_an... https://www.reddit.com/r/dating_advice/comments/17n91aj/is_an_iphone_seriously_a_dealbreaker_like_are/ https://www.reddit.com/r/dating_advice/comments/17n91aj/is_a... https://twitter.com/ldollaz_/status/1783138659480289561 https://twitter.com/ldollaz_/status/1783138659480289561 https://twitter.com/tweetsmoe/status/1783274758856925517 https://twitter.com/tweetsmoe/status/1783274758856925517 Some people even think the issue is Android: https://twitter.com/EbonyJHilton_MD/status/1348030395015700480 https://twitter.com/EbonyJHilton_MD/status/13480303950157004... I've also heard personal anecdotes from single men that I know who use Android (it definitely goes other way too but I know more single men personally than women).