4 ms·

Liberty and privacy are fashionable. The problem is that our Congress passes hundreds of pages of domestic spying legislation in the middle of the night. It’s n

Liberty and privacy are fashionable. The problem is that our Congress passes hundreds of pages of domestic spying legislation in the middle of the night. It’s not exactly the School House Rock democratic process we learned about in 4th grade. But that’s really beside the point. If you are like millions of other Americans filing W2s, the fact that you work for your employer isn’t a secret. Your salary isn’t a secret. Most people will take the standard deduction. There’s no reason why that can’t be the default. It’s not a privacy violation for the IRS to use that info to make peoples lives easier.

akira2501 3y ago
> the fact that you work for your employer isn’t a secret I would prefer if it was. It's even worse than that, the government has entitled itself to be a party to every transaction over $600, so even the self employed have to shoulder this unseemly burden. > Your salary isn’t a secret It is. It's a shared secret. Again, I would prefer if I didn't have to do this. My salary is not at all the same as my "taxable income." It puts me in a position to have to justify my filings after the fact to an entity that only has access to half my relevant information.
- markofzen 3y ago
  It's not a secret if your company uses any of the large payroll services due the Equifax "The Work Number".
  - anamexis 3y ago
    Don't you need to specifically authorize someone to use that to get your salary?
    - lupire 3y ago
      Not if that someone is Equifax itself or any of its hackers.
      - anamexis 3y ago
        Sure, any payroll company (or their hackers) knows your salary.
- philistine 3y ago
  There never was a point in the period of time when people filed taxes in the US that the government wasn’t entitled to know your salary. It used to take more time and effort to get the info, but better technology doesn’t change the game, it highlights that it wasn’t a « shared secret ». Your employer has a ton of paperwork to file related to your pay.
  - whatwhaaaaat 3y ago
    Did you not just explain how the game changed from technology in your own post? Before all of this unconstitutional collection of Americans information the government had to have a target and go out and collect and tabulate the information. Now it’s a select where citizen does thing x over y threshold. How is this not changing the game?
    - Retric 3y ago
      The government having this information predated electronic systems. In 1935! when Social Security came into existence companies needed to pay a portion of their employees income directly to the federal government. IRS didn’t get computers until the 1960’s.
  - pessimizer 3y ago
    Only if you're defining "filed taxes in the US" as "filed income taxes in the US," which would make your statement redundant. The first income tax in the US wasn't until the Civil War, and only existed for the length of it. The "first peacetime income tax" didn't come until 1894, only applied to income over $4000 (2023: $126,000), and thus only to the top 10% of the population. Even the constitutionality of an income tax was in question until 1913 and the 16th Amendment. People today assume the past was a lot more surveilled than it was. The government (at any level) often didn't even have a record of people's births until they needed to interact with the government for some reason, even in the early 20th century. That was largely changed by Social Security, and people at the time and since complained that its foothold would begin a slippery slope of government intrusion into every aspect of their lives. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_tax_in_the_United_States#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_tax_in_the_United_State...
- reindeergmz 3y ago
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deleted 3y ago
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maxrecursion 3y ago
If they got rid of all the deductions and loopholes most people wouldn't need to file as the only thing they'd have to put on their taxes is their W2 income. I believe the IRS is even informed of things like 401k disbursement and stock sales. Meaning most people wouldn't have to submit for those either. The gains of simplify the tax code are gargantuan, but unfortunately, the wealthy and powerful organizations benefit from the current system, and would be hurt financially by simplifying it. So, it will never be simplified.
- janalsncm 3y ago
  Part of the problem is that the main way the government knows how to give people money is through tax deductions. It doesn’t have to be that way. Covid checks demonstrated that grants are possible. That in and of itself would simple things, since there would just be a list of things you can apply for.

akira2501 3y ago

> the fact that you work for your employer isn’t a secret I would prefer if it was. It's even worse than that, the government has entitled itself to be a party to every transaction over $600, so even the self employed have to shoulder this unseemly burden. > Your salary isn’t a secret It is. It's a shared secret. Again, I would prefer if I didn't have to do this. My salary is not at all the same as my "taxable income." It puts me in a position to have to justify my filings after the fact to an entity that only has access to half my relevant information.

markofzen 3y ago
It's not a secret if your company uses any of the large payroll services due the Equifax "The Work Number".
- anamexis 3y ago
  Don't you need to specifically authorize someone to use that to get your salary?
  - lupire 3y ago
    Not if that someone is Equifax itself or any of its hackers.
    - anamexis 3y ago
      Sure, any payroll company (or their hackers) knows your salary.
philistine 3y ago
There never was a point in the period of time when people filed taxes in the US that the government wasn’t entitled to know your salary. It used to take more time and effort to get the info, but better technology doesn’t change the game, it highlights that it wasn’t a « shared secret ». Your employer has a ton of paperwork to file related to your pay.
- whatwhaaaaat 3y ago
  Did you not just explain how the game changed from technology in your own post? Before all of this unconstitutional collection of Americans information the government had to have a target and go out and collect and tabulate the information. Now it’s a select where citizen does thing x over y threshold. How is this not changing the game?
  - Retric 3y ago
    The government having this information predated electronic systems. In 1935! when Social Security came into existence companies needed to pay a portion of their employees income directly to the federal government. IRS didn’t get computers until the 1960’s.
- pessimizer 3y ago
  Only if you're defining "filed taxes in the US" as "filed income taxes in the US," which would make your statement redundant. The first income tax in the US wasn't until the Civil War, and only existed for the length of it. The "first peacetime income tax" didn't come until 1894, only applied to income over $4000 (2023: $126,000), and thus only to the top 10% of the population. Even the constitutionality of an income tax was in question until 1913 and the 16th Amendment. People today assume the past was a lot more surveilled than it was. The government (at any level) often didn't even have a record of people's births until they needed to interact with the government for some reason, even in the early 20th century. That was largely changed by Social Security, and people at the time and since complained that its foothold would begin a slippery slope of government intrusion into every aspect of their lives. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_tax_in_the_United_States#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_tax_in_the_United_State...
reindeergmz 3y ago
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deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

maxrecursion 3y ago

If they got rid of all the deductions and loopholes most people wouldn't need to file as the only thing they'd have to put on their taxes is their W2 income. I believe the IRS is even informed of things like 401k disbursement and stock sales. Meaning most people wouldn't have to submit for those either. The gains of simplify the tax code are gargantuan, but unfortunately, the wealthy and powerful organizations benefit from the current system, and would be hurt financially by simplifying it. So, it will never be simplified.

janalsncm 3y ago
Part of the problem is that the main way the government knows how to give people money is through tax deductions. It doesn’t have to be that way. Covid checks demonstrated that grants are possible. That in and of itself would simple things, since there would just be a list of things you can apply for.