5 ms·

If I decide to improve my skills and negotiate a 2x raise with my employer or another employer I don’t want to have to be limited by some additional bureaucracy

If I decide to improve my skills and negotiate a 2x raise with my employer or another employer I don’t want to have to be limited by some additional bureaucracy trying to tell me what my employment contract should be

solardev 2y ago
Does this happen frequently in reality, where unions prevent exceptional employees from negotiating better pay?
- jessriedel 2y ago
  Aren't unions overwhelmingly the driving force behind senority-based pay? Honest question. Like, I think teacher's unions are strongly against pay-for-performance.
  - firstplacelast 2y ago
    You don't have to unionize in a set way, just like there's no one way to write an employment contract. If anything, the tech industry should be leading the world in new ideas and methods (and dare I say it...technology) to organize labor.
    - jessriedel 2y ago
      I’m just responding to the question about how unions have often operated in the past.
  - solardev 2y ago
    I'd never heard of this before (but I'm also not any sort of expert in unionization). I'm coming into it more from the other side, unionization as a way buffer against (and maybe negotiate something other than) sudden mass layoffs.
    - jessriedel 2y ago
      At the exon 101 level, that sounds much more like a job for insurance, savings, or gov’t. (There are generally much lower deadweight losses from transfers compared to keeping people working jobs that are no longer economically net positive.) The better pro-union arguments I know are about balancing negotiating leverage due to many fewer employers than workers.
  - kelseyfrog 2y ago
    Unions are what their membership makes them, omnia praeter.
    - robocat 2y ago
      Do you also believe we get the government policies we voted for?
  - johnsimer 2y ago
    I don’t want seniority based pay. I want value based pay. If I join a company and day one I’m the top performer I’d want to negotiate a better package for myself and I don’t want other people meddling in my negotiation unless I explicitly hire them to
Barracoon 2y ago
I wonder if the National Basketball Players Association limits Lebron’s ability to negotiate his upcoming $122mm contract.
- isotropy 2y ago
  Yes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_salary_cap#Individual_contracts_under_the_CBA https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_salary_cap#Individual_cont... "The maximum player salary is based on the number of years that player has played and the total of the salary cap. The maximum salary of a player with 6 or fewer years of experience is either $25,500,000 or 25% of the total salary cap (projected for 2017–18), whichever is greater. For a player with 7–9 years of experience, the maximum is $30,600,000 or 30% of the cap, and for a player with 10+ years of experience, the maximum is $35,700,000 or 35% of the cap.[19][33] There is an exception to this rule: a player is able to sign a contract for 105% of his previous contract, even if the new contract is higher than the league limit.[34]"
theyinwhy 2y ago
Not once in my life have I heard or seen unions imterfering in any way or form with negotiations with an employer for better than union conditions. Unions negotiate global basics and of course allow better individual contracts.
- nickff 2y ago
  Is it actually common for high-performing union members to have better deals? In my (limited) experience, the unions tend to advocate for the long-term membership, who are often below-average performers.
  - theyinwhy 2y ago
    Yes. Usually wage ranges are negotiated. Negotiate before you join the company and make sure you understand your contract. If you are not sure, ask your union's representative or, of course, a lawyer specialized in labour law. Labour law is complex and you definitely want a specialist to answer your questions. Don't trust the first google hits, especially if you are in the US. Disinformation by union busters is very common around here.
melenaboija 2y ago
In a system that is hyper focused in growth like US and even more Silicon Valley, unions don’t seem to make a lot of sense for neither party. And the proof is there, huge businesses and astronomical salaries. I would say though this only benefits part of the society and comes with huge drawbacks too.
- fragmede 2y ago
  open office floor plans are universally reviled and a union could force those to go away.
unclebucknasty 2y ago
You should read the article. He talks about how worker leverage has dissipated, making it not-so-easy to negotiate that 2X raise versus in the past. It's kind of the point. See also, the surge in recent tech layoffs (which he cites in the article).
- johnsimer 2y ago
  If worker leverage has dissipated then IMO that’s because they’re providing less relative value. If you can provide your employer more value they will pay you more

solardev 2y ago

Does this happen frequently in reality, where unions prevent exceptional employees from negotiating better pay?

jessriedel 2y ago
Aren't unions overwhelmingly the driving force behind senority-based pay? Honest question. Like, I think teacher's unions are strongly against pay-for-performance.
- firstplacelast 2y ago
  You don't have to unionize in a set way, just like there's no one way to write an employment contract. If anything, the tech industry should be leading the world in new ideas and methods (and dare I say it...technology) to organize labor.
  - jessriedel 2y ago
    I’m just responding to the question about how unions have often operated in the past.
- solardev 2y ago
  I'd never heard of this before (but I'm also not any sort of expert in unionization). I'm coming into it more from the other side, unionization as a way buffer against (and maybe negotiate something other than) sudden mass layoffs.
  - jessriedel 2y ago
    At the exon 101 level, that sounds much more like a job for insurance, savings, or gov’t. (There are generally much lower deadweight losses from transfers compared to keeping people working jobs that are no longer economically net positive.) The better pro-union arguments I know are about balancing negotiating leverage due to many fewer employers than workers.
- kelseyfrog 2y ago
  Unions are what their membership makes them, omnia praeter.
  - robocat 2y ago
    Do you also believe we get the government policies we voted for?
- johnsimer 2y ago
  I don’t want seniority based pay. I want value based pay. If I join a company and day one I’m the top performer I’d want to negotiate a better package for myself and I don’t want other people meddling in my negotiation unless I explicitly hire them to

Barracoon 2y ago

I wonder if the National Basketball Players Association limits Lebron’s ability to negotiate his upcoming $122mm contract.

isotropy 2y ago
Yes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_salary_cap#Individual_contracts_under_the_CBA https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_salary_cap#Individual_cont... "The maximum player salary is based on the number of years that player has played and the total of the salary cap. The maximum salary of a player with 6 or fewer years of experience is either $25,500,000 or 25% of the total salary cap (projected for 2017–18), whichever is greater. For a player with 7–9 years of experience, the maximum is $30,600,000 or 30% of the cap, and for a player with 10+ years of experience, the maximum is $35,700,000 or 35% of the cap.[19][33] There is an exception to this rule: a player is able to sign a contract for 105% of his previous contract, even if the new contract is higher than the league limit.[34]"

theyinwhy 2y ago

Not once in my life have I heard or seen unions imterfering in any way or form with negotiations with an employer for better than union conditions. Unions negotiate global basics and of course allow better individual contracts.

nickff 2y ago
Is it actually common for high-performing union members to have better deals? In my (limited) experience, the unions tend to advocate for the long-term membership, who are often below-average performers.
- theyinwhy 2y ago
  Yes. Usually wage ranges are negotiated. Negotiate before you join the company and make sure you understand your contract. If you are not sure, ask your union's representative or, of course, a lawyer specialized in labour law. Labour law is complex and you definitely want a specialist to answer your questions. Don't trust the first google hits, especially if you are in the US. Disinformation by union busters is very common around here.

melenaboija 2y ago

In a system that is hyper focused in growth like US and even more Silicon Valley, unions don’t seem to make a lot of sense for neither party. And the proof is there, huge businesses and astronomical salaries. I would say though this only benefits part of the society and comes with huge drawbacks too.

fragmede 2y ago
open office floor plans are universally reviled and a union could force those to go away.

unclebucknasty 2y ago

You should read the article. He talks about how worker leverage has dissipated, making it not-so-easy to negotiate that 2X raise versus in the past. It's kind of the point. See also, the surge in recent tech layoffs (which he cites in the article).

johnsimer 2y ago
If worker leverage has dissipated then IMO that’s because they’re providing less relative value. If you can provide your employer more value they will pay you more