6 ms·

> I have yet to find anyone outside the tech industry who actually knows or gives a crap. Lots of school kids who get mocked for being "Green Texters" with cru

by joecot 2y ago

> I have yet to find anyone outside the tech industry who actually knows or gives a crap. Lots of school kids who get mocked for being "Green Texters" with crummy images and videos in their group texts. They really want their parents to shell out for an iPhone so it stops. Just because non-tech people don't know the cause, doesn't mean it doesn't affect them.

abaymado 2y ago
This is an outrageous take. Is iMessage the only group messaging app? If Apple was gate keeping all group messaging, I could see your point.
- jpalawaga 2y ago
  no, it's not, but is the default that works well for a large chunk of people, with an (intentionally) poorly degrading experience if one person in the group is not with the "in-crowd." Yes, life would be better if everyone mutually agreed to use things crossplatform all of the time. but they don't/haven't, so there is this friction.
  - jwagenet 2y ago
    Blame the carriers for not implementing rcs and getting stuck in horrible mms. Then blame Apple if they don’t implement it.
    - hu3 2y ago
      Fortunately it's up to regulators to decide what favors the population best. At least in EU they seem to be active (USB iPhones anyone), albeit slower than I'd like.
      - Longhanks 2y ago
        In democracies, usually it's up to the population to decide what favors the population best. Also, in democracies with a somewhat free market, you can simply choose not to buy phones that do not ship the port you prefer.
        stubish 2y ago
        In democracies, the population decides what favors them, and the government enacts their will via regulation. Without regulation, some companies will abuse their customers when profitable to do so, often dominating over the companies that do not.
- lynndotpy 2y ago
  It's not a take; it's simply a description, and it's accurate. There is a significant and undeniable social pressure for young people in the US to have an iPhone. If you can't use iMessage, you'll simply be excluded from group chats. Speaking exclusively from the cross-platform perspective, things are better nowadays with the expectation of Instagram and Discord, but you'll still be excluded from group chats for not having iMessage. I think this is a pretty big generational difference. I think most US citizens born after 2000 are well aware of the green bubble stigma as a simple fact of life.
  - gretch 2y ago
    I think it’s weird that governments would regulate a company on behalf of this reason. A bunch of teens got together and decided that some things were social stigma aren’t. I’m sure there’s some schools where you can’t be included unless you are wearing Abercrombie clothing, or have a MK purse. Is it time to step in there too?
    - mopenstein 2y ago
      When a person or entity doesn't do what you want, of course it's time to send in the goons to force them to behave. What's the point of having the goons if you're not going to use them?
      - skulk 2y ago
        I'm having a really hard time understanding the point of your comment. Let's peel back a layer of sarcasm here, evidenced by your use of the word "goons." You think it's wrong for the state to enforce a rule that prevents a certain type of behavior. Where does that end? Unsanctioned violence? Environmental destruction? Surely you're not advocating for anarchy. Ok, so you agree with reasonable limits on the power of these "goons." Do you then think Apple's behavior simply doesn't warrant this kind of enforcement? Why not just say that instead, and explain why? Spewing random sarcastic libertarian screeds just makes the whole discussion worse.
    - lynndotpy 2y ago
- meowster 2y ago
  It's a very common take that has been around for a very long time, so not outrageous in my opinion. Unless you mean outrageous on Apple's part, then I agree with you.
- rpdillon 2y ago
  Not really. The Department of Justice cited this exact behavior in their investigation of Apple. https://www.npr.org/2024/03/28/1241443505/green-bubble-shaming-android-apple-iphone https://www.npr.org/2024/03/28/1241443505/green-bubble-shami...
cjk2 2y ago
I'm not in the US but this is not a thing anywhere in the UK at least. Everyone uses WhatsApp. Same with all my friends in Europe. Same with my kids and their friends, although they all seem to be on SnapChat more than anything. Actually we don't even tend to bother even talking about which phones you have. It's just meh. My best friend doesn't even know what iMessage is as an example.
- hu3 2y ago
  It's a US problem. First link of a quick search: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2024/03/apples-green-bubbles-targeted-by-doj-in-lawsuit-over-iphone-monopoly/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2024/03/apples-green-bub...
  - cjk2 2y ago
    So it's more a problem with the humans than the technology.
    - rpdillon 2y ago
      I think it's economic. The US has free texting these days, which means SMS has more usage here than in another countries. This has prevented the entire nation from coalesing around one chat app, as so many others have.
      - cjk2 2y ago
        It has been the same here in the UK for longer. I haven't paid for an SMS for over 20 years.
      - distances 2y ago
        Every country in Europe I'm familiar with has free texts, but I think I can count with one hand the SMS I've received in the last ~10 years from actual people. Absolutely nobody sends SMS over here. Might be that US got the free texts first though. Not sure anymore what was the timeline with that.
paulmd 2y ago
> Lots of school kids who get mocked for being "Green Texters" So, you decided to try solving a social problem with a technological solution? Don’t make me tap the sign. Open SMTP relays never made anyone not get bullied in the email days either. If the apple is a status symbol, then kids will use it to be cruel regardless of the internals or regardless of the services it uses on the backend. They will find something else to ostracize you over.
zer00eyz 2y ago
Because those same kids aren't going to get mocked for the brand of clothing (or lack there of) that they wear? Using something as an excuse to be a piece of shit is not the same as giving a crap. This isnt an example of a good reason to do this.
- HDThoreaun 2y ago
  I was a kid not too long ago and no one gave a shit about a single luxury item other than iPhones. People who had fancy stuff were generally made fun of, the cool kids all wore stuff from the thrift store
  - bigstrat2003 2y ago
    The point is that there will always be something that kids use to single out and ostracize others. Kids are little barbarians who don't know how to be decent human beings yet, it isn't going to change just because they have to pick on some other characteristic to mock.
    - HDThoreaun 2y ago
      Why does apple ahve to encourage that behavior though? Theyve designed iMessage to make the experience worse with some people, it absolutely encourages exclusionary behavior among those who arent inclined to be exclusionary. Obviously some kids are just assholes, but plenty arent just going around looking for things to be mean about.

by joecot 2y ago

abaymado 2y ago

This is an outrageous take. Is iMessage the only group messaging app? If Apple was gate keeping all group messaging, I could see your point.

jpalawaga 2y ago
no, it's not, but is the default that works well for a large chunk of people, with an (intentionally) poorly degrading experience if one person in the group is not with the "in-crowd." Yes, life would be better if everyone mutually agreed to use things crossplatform all of the time. but they don't/haven't, so there is this friction.
- jwagenet 2y ago
  Blame the carriers for not implementing rcs and getting stuck in horrible mms. Then blame Apple if they don’t implement it.
  - hu3 2y ago
    Fortunately it's up to regulators to decide what favors the population best. At least in EU they seem to be active (USB iPhones anyone), albeit slower than I'd like.
    - Longhanks 2y ago
      In democracies, usually it's up to the population to decide what favors the population best. Also, in democracies with a somewhat free market, you can simply choose not to buy phones that do not ship the port you prefer.
      - stubish 2y ago
        In democracies, the population decides what favors them, and the government enacts their will via regulation. Without regulation, some companies will abuse their customers when profitable to do so, often dominating over the companies that do not.
lynndotpy 2y ago
It's not a take; it's simply a description, and it's accurate. There is a significant and undeniable social pressure for young people in the US to have an iPhone. If you can't use iMessage, you'll simply be excluded from group chats. Speaking exclusively from the cross-platform perspective, things are better nowadays with the expectation of Instagram and Discord, but you'll still be excluded from group chats for not having iMessage. I think this is a pretty big generational difference. I think most US citizens born after 2000 are well aware of the green bubble stigma as a simple fact of life.
- gretch 2y ago
  I think it’s weird that governments would regulate a company on behalf of this reason. A bunch of teens got together and decided that some things were social stigma aren’t. I’m sure there’s some schools where you can’t be included unless you are wearing Abercrombie clothing, or have a MK purse. Is it time to step in there too?
  - mopenstein 2y ago
    When a person or entity doesn't do what you want, of course it's time to send in the goons to force them to behave. What's the point of having the goons if you're not going to use them?
    - skulk 2y ago
      I'm having a really hard time understanding the point of your comment. Let's peel back a layer of sarcasm here, evidenced by your use of the word "goons." You think it's wrong for the state to enforce a rule that prevents a certain type of behavior. Where does that end? Unsanctioned violence? Environmental destruction? Surely you're not advocating for anarchy. Ok, so you agree with reasonable limits on the power of these "goons." Do you then think Apple's behavior simply doesn't warrant this kind of enforcement? Why not just say that instead, and explain why? Spewing random sarcastic libertarian screeds just makes the whole discussion worse.
  - lynndotpy 2y ago
meowster 2y ago
It's a very common take that has been around for a very long time, so not outrageous in my opinion. Unless you mean outrageous on Apple's part, then I agree with you.
rpdillon 2y ago
Not really. The Department of Justice cited this exact behavior in their investigation of Apple. https://www.npr.org/2024/03/28/1241443505/green-bubble-shaming-android-apple-iphone https://www.npr.org/2024/03/28/1241443505/green-bubble-shami...

cjk2 2y ago

I'm not in the US but this is not a thing anywhere in the UK at least. Everyone uses WhatsApp. Same with all my friends in Europe. Same with my kids and their friends, although they all seem to be on SnapChat more than anything. Actually we don't even tend to bother even talking about which phones you have. It's just meh. My best friend doesn't even know what iMessage is as an example.

hu3 2y ago
It's a US problem. First link of a quick search: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2024/03/apples-green-bubbles-targeted-by-doj-in-lawsuit-over-iphone-monopoly/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2024/03/apples-green-bub...
- cjk2 2y ago
  So it's more a problem with the humans than the technology.
  - rpdillon 2y ago
    I think it's economic. The US has free texting these days, which means SMS has more usage here than in another countries. This has prevented the entire nation from coalesing around one chat app, as so many others have.
    - cjk2 2y ago
      It has been the same here in the UK for longer. I haven't paid for an SMS for over 20 years.
    - distances 2y ago
      Every country in Europe I'm familiar with has free texts, but I think I can count with one hand the SMS I've received in the last ~10 years from actual people. Absolutely nobody sends SMS over here. Might be that US got the free texts first though. Not sure anymore what was the timeline with that.

paulmd 2y ago

> Lots of school kids who get mocked for being "Green Texters" So, you decided to try solving a social problem with a technological solution? Don’t make me tap the sign. Open SMTP relays never made anyone not get bullied in the email days either. If the apple is a status symbol, then kids will use it to be cruel regardless of the internals or regardless of the services it uses on the backend. They will find something else to ostracize you over.

zer00eyz 2y ago

Because those same kids aren't going to get mocked for the brand of clothing (or lack there of) that they wear? Using something as an excuse to be a piece of shit is not the same as giving a crap. This isnt an example of a good reason to do this.

HDThoreaun 2y ago
I was a kid not too long ago and no one gave a shit about a single luxury item other than iPhones. People who had fancy stuff were generally made fun of, the cool kids all wore stuff from the thrift store
- bigstrat2003 2y ago
  The point is that there will always be something that kids use to single out and ostracize others. Kids are little barbarians who don't know how to be decent human beings yet, it isn't going to change just because they have to pick on some other characteristic to mock.
  - HDThoreaun 2y ago
    Why does apple ahve to encourage that behavior though? Theyve designed iMessage to make the experience worse with some people, it absolutely encourages exclusionary behavior among those who arent inclined to be exclusionary. Obviously some kids are just assholes, but plenty arent just going around looking for things to be mean about.