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This has nothing to do with the classic Apple vs Android debate. It's about Apple's practices of pushing people to purchase the iPhone even if they might not wa

by s1k3s 2y ago

This has nothing to do with the classic Apple vs Android debate. It's about Apple's practices of pushing people to purchase the iPhone even if they might not want to.

ChilledTonic 2y ago
Right, and I’m trying to state that those practices are ancillary at best reasons when the end user just sees a functional phone. Joe Consumer doesn’t even notice the garden has walls.
- layer8 2y ago
  Just wait a bit, you will encounter lots of stuff that doesn’t work, or that has you jump through hoops or buy a subscription, soon enough.
  - nozzlegear 2y ago
    Can you name some examples, instead of being vague?
    - layer8 2y ago
      HomeKit fails a lot for me, as does Safari syncing of favorites, including sometimes the wrong icons being shown for a given favorite. There are bugs in Safari browsing history, such as when you select some history entry, the underlying links of other entries sometimes get shifted (with respect to the displayed labels). Apple Mails takes multiple minutes to sync read/unread status between devices, and sometimes doesn’t sync at all until you open the app. Even on the same device, the Mail app badge only updates half a minute or so after having read an email. When editing text and cutting and pasting around, the text suggestions tend to see a different internal state than what is displayed (you get suggestions for terms you have cut out or deleted concatenated with words that are still there or that you pasted). Apple services have regular hickups. Just today we had https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40177617 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40177617. ICloud backup requires a subscription beyond 5 GB, or else you have to backup via Mac or PC, which at least on PC Apple doesn’t allow you to automate. (You have to manually authorize each new connection to the PC, even after a small interruption. There used to be a persistent “trust this PC”, but that’s gone.) That’s from the top of my head.
    - hu3 2y ago
      Just an example I had recently, my friend replaced his iPhone 8 because after two years of it functioning perfectly fine, apps started crashing/closing out of nowhere. Not to mention he constantly complained about apps being slow. His Apple maps frequently pointed to slightly wrong places (like 50 meters off) when given coordinates shared by messaging apps. Sometimes closing the maps app and reclicking the link fixed the position. It got to a point that he started sharing destination coordinates with me so I could open Google Maps on my phone so we could navigate confidently. Also he complained that Canva and Instagram apps were slow or broken for some operations on the phone. For example trying to share a longer video in reels resulted in app crashing. But those are not Apple apps so I'm not even counting all these third party issues. But it was like death by a thousand cuts. Since replacing his iPhone for a newer model, everything was fixed. For now.
- s1k3s 2y ago
  Joe Consumer doesn't know a lot of things. That doesn't mean the government should allow them.
op00to 2y ago
SMS still works fine. No one is forced to purchase an iPhone because they want to message someone.
- hu3 2y ago
  In US, green bubble social peer-pressure does force many teens to buy iPhones.
  - op00to 2y ago
    “Force”? No one is forced to give in to peer pressure by buying something. It’s one thing to want to fit in, but then we should also force clothing to not have visible brands so kids can’t compare what clothes they have, and youth sports teams so kids can’t exclude non-sports playing peers.
    - hu3 2y ago
      The analogy doesn't hold because Nike shirts looks and behaves just the same regardless of my jeans brand. Whereas a green bubble means degraded experience for the entire messaging group just because of that one guy.
      - lotsofpulp 2y ago
        Then use the myriad other cross platform apps. Also, one’s appearance can also cause a group to be viewed and treated differently, akin to degrading the “experience”.
        hu3 2y ago
        Yes, it would help US teens were convinced to use another communication app that treated people equally in a group regardless of their phones. But they are teens and culture from network effects is hard to change. Or a much easier approach, Apple could fix that, if they wanted. But they don't because iPhones would lose their status symbol (blue bubble) and teens could then buy other phones without suffering rejection in groups. Apple can't have that. If culture among teens is hard to change and Apple values income above all, it's up to regulators. But US regulators aren't as active than EU.

by s1k3s 2y ago

This has nothing to do with the classic Apple vs Android debate. It's about Apple's practices of pushing people to purchase the iPhone even if they might not want to.

ChilledTonic 2y ago

Right, and I’m trying to state that those practices are ancillary at best reasons when the end user just sees a functional phone. Joe Consumer doesn’t even notice the garden has walls.

layer8 2y ago
Just wait a bit, you will encounter lots of stuff that doesn’t work, or that has you jump through hoops or buy a subscription, soon enough.
- nozzlegear 2y ago
  Can you name some examples, instead of being vague?
  - layer8 2y ago
    HomeKit fails a lot for me, as does Safari syncing of favorites, including sometimes the wrong icons being shown for a given favorite. There are bugs in Safari browsing history, such as when you select some history entry, the underlying links of other entries sometimes get shifted (with respect to the displayed labels). Apple Mails takes multiple minutes to sync read/unread status between devices, and sometimes doesn’t sync at all until you open the app. Even on the same device, the Mail app badge only updates half a minute or so after having read an email. When editing text and cutting and pasting around, the text suggestions tend to see a different internal state than what is displayed (you get suggestions for terms you have cut out or deleted concatenated with words that are still there or that you pasted). Apple services have regular hickups. Just today we had https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40177617 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40177617. ICloud backup requires a subscription beyond 5 GB, or else you have to backup via Mac or PC, which at least on PC Apple doesn’t allow you to automate. (You have to manually authorize each new connection to the PC, even after a small interruption. There used to be a persistent “trust this PC”, but that’s gone.) That’s from the top of my head.
  - hu3 2y ago
    Just an example I had recently, my friend replaced his iPhone 8 because after two years of it functioning perfectly fine, apps started crashing/closing out of nowhere. Not to mention he constantly complained about apps being slow. His Apple maps frequently pointed to slightly wrong places (like 50 meters off) when given coordinates shared by messaging apps. Sometimes closing the maps app and reclicking the link fixed the position. It got to a point that he started sharing destination coordinates with me so I could open Google Maps on my phone so we could navigate confidently. Also he complained that Canva and Instagram apps were slow or broken for some operations on the phone. For example trying to share a longer video in reels resulted in app crashing. But those are not Apple apps so I'm not even counting all these third party issues. But it was like death by a thousand cuts. Since replacing his iPhone for a newer model, everything was fixed. For now.
s1k3s 2y ago
Joe Consumer doesn't know a lot of things. That doesn't mean the government should allow them.

op00to 2y ago

SMS still works fine. No one is forced to purchase an iPhone because they want to message someone.

hu3 2y ago
In US, green bubble social peer-pressure does force many teens to buy iPhones.
- op00to 2y ago
  “Force”? No one is forced to give in to peer pressure by buying something. It’s one thing to want to fit in, but then we should also force clothing to not have visible brands so kids can’t compare what clothes they have, and youth sports teams so kids can’t exclude non-sports playing peers.
  - hu3 2y ago
    The analogy doesn't hold because Nike shirts looks and behaves just the same regardless of my jeans brand. Whereas a green bubble means degraded experience for the entire messaging group just because of that one guy.
    - lotsofpulp 2y ago
      Then use the myriad other cross platform apps. Also, one’s appearance can also cause a group to be viewed and treated differently, akin to degrading the “experience”.
      - hu3 2y ago
        Yes, it would help US teens were convinced to use another communication app that treated people equally in a group regardless of their phones. But they are teens and culture from network effects is hard to change. Or a much easier approach, Apple could fix that, if they wanted. But they don't because iPhones would lose their status symbol (blue bubble) and teens could then buy other phones without suffering rejection in groups. Apple can't have that. If culture among teens is hard to change and Apple values income above all, it's up to regulators. But US regulators aren't as active than EU.